Justadragon
SGI NSW Cup
Totally agree mate, but you and I know that turning the ball under is exactly what they will do. And whilst we play bash and grind they will be cutting us to shreds on the edges.
Dragons v Storm Round 2
- Thread starter Dragon David
- Start date
Justadragon
SGI NSW Cup
Agree, but from memory I dont think the Storm had Hughes who makes a world of difference to that side, but here's hoping.
Dave03
SGI NSW Cup
They still had many great players, if it takes having hughes to beat us then we must be doing something right. Hughes is very important to them, another manufactured half. Hope Atko can be something similar in time.
Dragons Chris
SGI NSW Cup
I'm just wondering where they get their talent scouts from. How it is they can find 2 centres and wingers like that who no one had heard of 2 years ago while Flanno has to pay 1 mil a year for 30 year-old Holmes. Recruit a prop to play wing like CT and a 26 year-old Warriors reserve grader.
Illusion
SGI NSW Cup
X2 ....... Agree ....... From what I can see Coach is all about big players that can just cart the ball up ....... He doesn't seem to like the fast small type player that can turn a game ........ Will we see Buchanan again in top grade ( typical small fast but not the Flanno type ) ........
Dragon David
SGI Jersey Flegg
Its amazing how Bellamy can get players basically as nobodies and is able to turn them into somebodies. He would have gotten Lomax in tip top condition and wowing the Storm fans had the Eels agreed to let him go to the Storm. What is also amazing is the fact that more often than not, when a Storm player leaves the Storm, that player seems nowhere near as good in the new team as he was with the Storm. For example Pezet last night. Although in this instance, Bellamy said in his pregame interview that he will work on Pezet's good points and look at how to reduce them, not look at his deficiencies. Pezet looked like a reserve grader. I wonder if the Broncos are having second thoughts about him replacing Reynolds - who would be hard to replace.
I think Shane Flanagan should do the same for half a dozen or so of the Storm players because I am sure Bellamy will be doing this for our players.
Mate it’s ridiculous. I watch a heap of junior stuff and Cooper Clarke was not a huge stand out in Tigers HMatts IMO. How they identified him & turned him into the player that performed like that on debut it’s just elite
Dave03
SGI NSW Cup
I'd want those nrl top 30 development coaches in the dragons system.
Without a doubt
Dragon David
SGI Jersey Flegg
The Storms coaching systems are in my opinion second to none. That Club has only had 3 coaches since it came into the NRL in 1998, they being -
Chris Anderson - 1998 to part of 2001 (quitting after being from 9 games, 7 losses and two wins). Overall win/loss percentage was 60%.
Mark Murray - 2001 (took over from Anderson - who had a form of heart problem) being sacked at the end of 2002 . Win/loss percentage was 41.86%.
Craig Bellamy - 2003 to date. Win/Loss percentage is 70%.
Obviously Craig Baby wins hands down and that is why the Board/Owner of the Storm have always wanted his services to continue - now signed to the end of 2028. Why not?
So is it any wonder why a player like Cooper Clarke, who is not a household name now but will be by the end of 2026, is what he is. A Craig Bellamy creation.
We fortunately had 11 grand final wins in a row, thank goodness. The Storm has had 25 successfully completed years (although salary cap cheating blemished a couple of those years) under Bellamy. The master coach.
How great it might have been for the Dragons if we were able several years ago to get him with Cooper Cronk. Oh well back to Shane!!!
RufusRex
SGI Jersey Flegg
This is such a multi faceted discussion ...
When you create a working system and players move in and out of that system it is quite formidable.
The main aspect is that the club never were really punished in terms of squad for their salary cap breaches. They still potentially reap the benefits of that ...
A spine and go forward is critical to the success of a club. Build that spine, maintain it and as required move the next gen in as the old leaves ...
In an ideal world you have a 1/6/7/9 3-4 years apart in their development so a rookie, a 3-4 year and 7-8 year and a 10-11 year vet. Keep the guts togethers and focus on the pathway for one ... it works so well ... When Slater retires you have Paps, when Smith retires you have Grant, when Cronk retires Hughes and no doubt the Munster replacement is already targeted and being developed. After bennet left in 2011 we lost our fullback immediately, our hooker and halfback the year later and sowie the year after that. The benefit of climbing the mountain instantly lost. Within three years our entire spine was gone.
The storm essentially held their cheating spine together and built everything for the future around it. Every new player coming into the club has come into a team whose genesis was illegally formed. They come into a settled well defined team .. they cannot help but be successful. The foundations are in place, one player retires/moves on and the next has a general idea how to play but is brought into a team that is stable.
FaAlogo last night another great example playing with established Hughes/Munster and Grant.
We cannot even build a working spine let alone one that sets us up for sustained success
20, 23, 27, 30 ... your spine need to be those ages
ours currently is this ... 31, 27, 25, 34 ... Cook/Gutho cannot be sustained.
looking forward (next year) if we could get this in place it works
23 - ???
26 - Atkinson
20 - Reed
30 - Liddle (with Kyle 28)
So we need to recruit a fullback with ability who is about 23 years old. Jahreem Bula would be ideal.
We get a spine of Bula/Atkinson/Reed/Liddle in place with Flano (or an import 14) then that is a start ...
The next trick is getting that group to click sustainably and is the benefit Melbourne/Panthers currently enjoy.
Finally plan their retirements so Hooker becomes the next priority for us (and looking at our depth one we are a little skinny in).
The other aspect is go forward ... at least two props of worth ... We will have one next year in KK with Toby developing nicely. Hamish is a good option as well at lock but another experienced talented middle (Barnett) would be great for us.
When you create a working system and players move in and out of that system it is quite formidable.
The main aspect is that the club never were really punished in terms of squad for their salary cap breaches. They still potentially reap the benefits of that ...
A spine and go forward is critical to the success of a club. Build that spine, maintain it and as required move the next gen in as the old leaves ...
In an ideal world you have a 1/6/7/9 3-4 years apart in their development so a rookie, a 3-4 year and 7-8 year and a 10-11 year vet. Keep the guts togethers and focus on the pathway for one ... it works so well ... When Slater retires you have Paps, when Smith retires you have Grant, when Cronk retires Hughes and no doubt the Munster replacement is already targeted and being developed. After bennet left in 2011 we lost our fullback immediately, our hooker and halfback the year later and sowie the year after that. The benefit of climbing the mountain instantly lost. Within three years our entire spine was gone.
The storm essentially held their cheating spine together and built everything for the future around it. Every new player coming into the club has come into a team whose genesis was illegally formed. They come into a settled well defined team .. they cannot help but be successful. The foundations are in place, one player retires/moves on and the next has a general idea how to play but is brought into a team that is stable.
FaAlogo last night another great example playing with established Hughes/Munster and Grant.
We cannot even build a working spine let alone one that sets us up for sustained success
20, 23, 27, 30 ... your spine need to be those ages
ours currently is this ... 31, 27, 25, 34 ... Cook/Gutho cannot be sustained.
looking forward (next year) if we could get this in place it works
23 - ???
26 - Atkinson
20 - Reed
30 - Liddle (with Kyle 28)
So we need to recruit a fullback with ability who is about 23 years old. Jahreem Bula would be ideal.
We get a spine of Bula/Atkinson/Reed/Liddle in place with Flano (or an import 14) then that is a start ...
The next trick is getting that group to click sustainably and is the benefit Melbourne/Panthers currently enjoy.
Finally plan their retirements so Hooker becomes the next priority for us (and looking at our depth one we are a little skinny in).
The other aspect is go forward ... at least two props of worth ... We will have one next year in KK with Toby developing nicely. Hamish is a good option as well at lock but another experienced talented middle (Barnett) would be great for us.
GCRV
SGI NSW Cup
It'll take a bit of time for DA to sort this out. Hopefully by the start of next year.
We aren't that far off. A good halfback and a fast, young outside back or 3. Any of those Melbourne back 5 would be the go-to player out of our back 5 and they have Coats and wanted Lomax!
Justadragon
SGI NSW Cup
They have been doing it for many years Chris and I assume will continue to do it for many more. There was a documentary on one of the pay TV channels showing you exactly the type of player they recruit, and its not usually the best player by any means.
Justadragon
SGI NSW Cup
I think Widdop and Jeremy Smith looked pretty good when they came to us Dave.
Justadragon
SGI NSW Cup
Problem is with Buchanan I do think he is a bit small for a center, I'd like to see him at FB
Justadragon
SGI NSW Cup
Storms version of remanufacturing is they end up with a Ferrari, ours is we end up with a Kombi (cough, cough KF)
Dragon David
SGI Jersey Flegg
Your post is most appreciated RufusRex. Well thought out and documented, thanks.
DD
Dragon David
SGI Jersey Flegg
Very true, Justa. How could I forget that?
I think we got Kerr from them and in his case he wasn't a world beater so not the same. So not all players end up on the better side like with Kerr. Utoikamanu has become a much better player for the Storm than when he was at the Tigers.
Mug Fan
SGI NSW Cup
Storm have improved their pathways significantly in the last few years. Putting a lot of time and money into it.
Most of the players in their rep teams are local players.
The local comps are week so the top players benefit from years in elite Academy. Where Storm concentrate all their time.
If you look at their Junior Reps, Matts are generally last each year but after a few years in Academy they improve greatly.
SGB last few years have been last 12, 8, currently 4th.
They now aslo have a team in NSW Comp completing their pathways
Another example why we need to put all our efforts into 2 elite teams with 30 to 40 kids in Academy