China

[Eric]

just to quote GCRV and Edward:

Sounds good. Australia is about 20 years behind China because the government banned Huawei due to some spying backdoors the US regime assured our regime exists but never provided any proof. And for which technological minnows such Japan, Germany and Russia can't find.

They talk about that a lot here. That is in the English language media. In the Chinese media, I think they talk about it a real lot. It is weird. The more and more rapidly US power wanes, the more the Australian government is subservient to it.

I don't know about the particular case. There are no backdoors. That is certain or they would have been demonstrated. But there is something to be said about allowing so much vital technology to be reliant on one company. But on the the flip side, there is something to be said about getting alternatives late, for much less money and poorer performance. It's a difficult issue.

 

[GCRV]

just to quote GCRV and Edward:


I don't know about the particular case. There are no backdoors. That is certain or they would have been demonstrated. But there is something to be said about allowing so much vital technology to be reliant on one company. But on the the flip side, there is something to be said about getting alternatives late, for much less money and poorer performance. It's a difficult issue.

5000 years of history, the largest population and in real GDP, not US$ based, by far the largest economy. Should be a lot to discuss.

 

[jodragon40]

Went to China in 2019 it's a wonderful country steeped in history and tradition. Did all the touristy things, climbed the steps to the top of the Great Wall of China. Fed a baby panda, saw the terracotta Warriors. A big eye opener in Shanghai and Beijing the number of cashed up teens waiting in long quese to get into the high end stores. Our guide was a young man who had just started a family nice fellow took him to karaoke and got him plastered. However there was a dark side communism that loves the $$ they were building 5 new super highways at once, the rule of thumb was $100,000 for every km built compare that to $1m in Australia at the time. Meandering through the countryside on their trains, started pretty flash but ended in 2 stars the further away from the capital you went. Building a false real estate economy nobody could afford to move into especially in the countryside. By that I mean you'd come across a village on the train line and you would see hi rises empty very unusual. Definitely 3 classes of living the very rich, middle and the very poor not too many in the first two. The major cities had very high pollution and poor air quality. Major cities were very crowded. Did the Yangtze River cruise and met and drank with a high ranking official and his enterouge drinking schooner glasses of saki selling on the cruise for $100US a bottle. He was in charge of electricity supplies and he was selling the rights to people from various areas of the country. These people paid in cash in $US my guide said up to $1m a pop. Very strict media rules. Eye opener.

 

[GCRV]

Went to China in 2019 it's a wonderful country steeped in history and tradition. Did all the touristy things, climbed the steps to the top of the Great Wall of China. Fed a baby panda, saw the terracotta Warriors. A big eye opener in Shanghai and Beijing the number of cashed up teens waiting in long quese to get into the high end stores. Our guide was a young man who had just started a family nice fellow took him to karaoke and got him plastered. However there was a dark side communism that loves the $$ they were building 5 new super highways at once, the rule of thumb was $100,000 for every km built compare that to $1m in Australia at the time. Meandering through the countryside on their trains, started pretty flash but ended in 2 stars the further away from the capital you went. Building a false real estate economy nobody could afford to move into especially in the countryside. By that I mean you'd come across a village on the train line and you would see hi rises empty very unusual. Definitely 3 classes of living the very rich, middle and the very poor not too many in the first two. The major cities had very high pollution and poor air quality. Major cities were very crowded. Did the Yangtze River cruise and met and drank with a high ranking official and his enterouge drinking schooner glasses of saki selling on the cruise for $100US a bottle. He was in charge of electricity supplies and he was selling the rights to people from various areas of the country. These people paid in cash in $US my guide said up to $1m a pop. Very strict media rules. Eye opener.

You think they have a false economy? What does that make the casino economies of USA and Western Europe? I was reading recently they have lifted a cool 700 million people out of poverty in the last 30 years and according to the CPC, that isn't good enough.

And China definitely isn't communist. They have never referred to themselves as that. They call themselves socialists who goal is to bring about a communist society. As was the case for the Soviet Union. As is the case for Cuba. Not sure about North Korea

 

[Edward]

Went to China in 2019 it's a wonderful country steeped in history and tradition. Did all the touristy things, climbed the steps to the top of the Great Wall of China. Fed a baby panda, saw the terracotta Warriors. A big eye opener in Shanghai and Beijing the number of cashed up teens waiting in long quese to get into the high end stores. Our guide was a young man who had just started a family nice fellow took him to karaoke and got him plastered. However there was a dark side communism that loves the $$ they were building 5 new super highways at once, the rule of thumb was $100,000 for every km built compare that to $1m in Australia at the time. Meandering through the countryside on their trains, started pretty flash but ended in 2 stars the further away from the capital you went. Building a false real estate economy nobody could afford to move into especially in the countryside. By that I mean you'd come across a village on the train line and you would see hi rises empty very unusual. Definitely 3 classes of living the very rich, middle and the very poor not too many in the first two. The major cities had very high pollution and poor air quality. Major cities were very crowded. Did the Yangtze River cruise and met and drank with a high ranking official and his enterouge drinking schooner glasses of saki selling on the cruise for $100US a bottle. He was in charge of electricity supplies and he was selling the rights to people from various areas of the country. These people paid in cash in $US my guide said up to $1m a pop. Very strict media rules. Eye opener.

You think they have a false economy? What does that make the casino economies of USA and Western Europe? I was reading recently they have lifted a cool 700 million people out of poverty in the last 30 years and according to the CPC, that isn't good enough.

And China definitely isn't communist. They have never referred to themselves as that. They call themselves socialists who goal is to bring about a communist society. As was the case for the Soviet Union. As is the case for Cuba. Not sure about North Korea

How do you quote 2 people in the same message?

You are both right.
Firstly jodragon40
* Beijing and Shanghai, especially the latter are the last places I would recommend for China. Especially Shanghai. It's just one very big cement jungle. At least Beijing has the Great Wall nearby and the Forbidden City in the middle.

* The inequality is really bad. Only the US is worse of major economies. I think UK is very close as well. Maybe worse now. But unlike the US, the gov here is doing something about it. Smashing the "free market" with an iron fist when it inevitably fails the population.

* I'm sure you are right about the highways but most of their effort goes into trains. Now they have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined and are expanding it quickly. 15 years ago they had 0km of it.

* As for air pollution, you were right and are still to an extent but now Russian gas has been connected to most major population centres. At least in the north and central areas, not yet in Shanghai but I think that stretch of pipeline is supposed to be completed this year, it's much better than it was a short time ago. Not like Tokyo yet but similar to New York, Chicago, Moscow or St. Petersburg. Can't compare other northern European cities because they are so much smaller.

* Finally, you know alcohol was invented in China about 4000 years ago but sake (not saki) is Japanese, not Chinese?

GCRV
*jodragon40 is right about the "fake real estate economy". Immediately after the Great Recession, about a decade ago, Western countries no longer had enough money to buy everything from China so the gov encouraged the building boom. Highly speculative. But you are also right. For consumer goods and a huge amount of machine building, pharmaceuticals, chemicals and more China makes almost everything except the cheapest items. As opposed to USA and Western Europe who make little of anything except stock market speculation with money borrowed from China.

*As far as communism, you are right. They refer to a socialist society with Chinese characteristics. It's easy to write that off as just more capitalism but the % of the Chinese economy in state owned enterprises is far greater than India or any G7 economy but still significantly less than Russia's economy. That suggests China is very socialistic.

*You are right about the number of people lifted out of poverty. It is a source of dissatisfaction within the Communist Party who seem to believe it's not good enough.

 

[GCRV]

How do you quote 2 people in the same message?

You are both right.
Firstly jodragon40
* Beijing and Shanghai, especially the latter are the last places I would recommend for China. Especially Shanghai. It's just one very big cement jungle. At least Beijing has the Great Wall nearby and the Forbidden City in the middle.

* The inequality is really bad. Only the US is worse of major economies. I think UK is very close as well. Maybe worse now. But unlike the US, the gov here is doing something about it. Smashing the "free market" with an iron fist when it inevitably fails the population.

* I'm sure you are right about the highways but most of their effort goes into trains. Now they have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined and are expanding it quickly. 15 years ago they had 0km of it.

* As for air pollution, you were right and are still to an extent but now Russian gas has been connected to most major population centres. At least in the north and central areas, not yet in Shanghai but I think that stretch of pipeline is supposed to be completed this year, it's much better than it was a short time ago. Not like Tokyo yet but similar to New York, Chicago, Moscow or St. Petersburg. Can't compare other northern European cities because they are so much smaller.

* Finally, you know alcohol was invented in China about 4000 years ago but sake (not saki) is Japanese, not Chinese?

GCRV
*jodragon40 is right about the "fake real estate economy". Immediately after the Great Recession, about a decade ago, Western countries no longer had enough money to buy everything from China so the gov encouraged the building boom. Highly speculative. But you are also right. For consumer goods and a huge amount of machine building, pharmaceuticals, chemicals and more China makes almost everything except the cheapest items. As opposed to USA and Western Europe who make little of anything except stock market speculation with money borrowed from China.

*As far as communism, you are right. They refer to a socialist society with Chinese characteristics. It's easy to write that off as just more capitalism but the % of the Chinese economy in state owned enterprises is far greater than India or any G7 economy but still significantly less than Russia's economy. That suggests China is very socialistic.

*You are right about the number of people lifted out of poverty. It is a source of dissatisfaction within the Communist Party who seem to believe it's not good enough.

Interesting! I want to go there with JoDragon and test that famous 4000 year old liquor.

 

[Eric]

How do you quote 2 people in the same message?

You are both right.
Firstly jodragon40
* Beijing and Shanghai, especially the latter are the last places I would recommend for China. Especially Shanghai. It's just one very big cement jungle. At least Beijing has the Great Wall nearby and the Forbidden City in the middle.

* The inequality is really bad. Only the US is worse of major economies. I think UK is very close as well. Maybe worse now. But unlike the US, the gov here is doing something about it. Smashing the "free market" with an iron fist when it inevitably fails the population.

* I'm sure you are right about the highways but most of their effort goes into trains. Now they have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined and are expanding it quickly. 15 years ago they had 0km of it.

* As for air pollution, you were right and are still to an extent but now Russian gas has been connected to most major population centres. At least in the north and central areas, not yet in Shanghai but I think that stretch of pipeline is supposed to be completed this year, it's much better than it was a short time ago. Not like Tokyo yet but similar to New York, Chicago, Moscow or St. Petersburg. Can't compare other northern European cities because they are so much smaller.

* Finally, you know alcohol was invented in China about 4000 years ago but sake (not saki) is Japanese, not Chinese?

GCRV
*jodragon40 is right about the "fake real estate economy". Immediately after the Great Recession, about a decade ago, Western countries no longer had enough money to buy everything from China so the gov encouraged the building boom. Highly speculative. But you are also right. For consumer goods and a huge amount of machine building, pharmaceuticals, chemicals and more China makes almost everything except the cheapest items. As opposed to USA and Western Europe who make little of anything except stock market speculation with money borrowed from China.

*As far as communism, you are right. They refer to a socialist society with Chinese characteristics. It's easy to write that off as just more capitalism but the % of the Chinese economy in state owned enterprises is far greater than India or any G7 economy but still significantly less than Russia's economy. That suggests China is very socialistic.

*You are right about the number of people lifted out of poverty. It is a source of dissatisfaction within the Communist Party who seem to believe it's not good enough.

Interesting. As for your first question, how to quote two people in one post, just press reply for both. Reply to one post and reply again and again for however many people.

 

[jodragon40]

How do you quote 2 people in the same message?

You are both right.
Firstly jodragon40
* Beijing and Shanghai, especially the latter are the last places I would recommend for China. Especially Shanghai. It's just one very big cement jungle. At least Beijing has the Great Wall nearby and the Forbidden City in the middle.

* The inequality is really bad. Only the US is worse of major economies. I think UK is very close as well. Maybe worse now. But unlike the US, the gov here is doing something about it. Smashing the "free market" with an iron fist when it inevitably fails the population.

* I'm sure you are right about the highways but most of their effort goes into trains. Now they have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined and are expanding it quickly. 15 years ago they had 0km of it.

* As for air pollution, you were right and are still to an extent but now Russian gas has been connected to most major population centres. At least in the north and central areas, not yet in Shanghai but I think that stretch of pipeline is supposed to be completed this year, it's much better than it was a short time ago. Not like Tokyo yet but similar to New York, Chicago, Moscow or St. Petersburg. Can't compare other northern European cities because they are so much smaller.

* Finally, you know alcohol was invented in China about 4000 years ago but sake (not saki) is Japanese, not Chinese?

GCRV
*jodragon40 is right about the "fake real estate economy". Immediately after the Great Recession, about a decade ago, Western countries no longer had enough money to buy everything from China so the gov encouraged the building boom. Highly speculative. But you are also right. For consumer goods and a huge amount of machine building, pharmaceuticals, chemicals and more China makes almost everything except the cheapest items. As opposed to USA and Western Europe who make little of anything except stock market speculation with money borrowed from China.

*As far as communism, you are right. They refer to a socialist society with Chinese characteristics. It's easy to write that off as just more capitalism but the % of the Chinese economy in state owned enterprises is far greater than India or any G7 economy but still significantly less than Russia's economy. That suggests China is very socialistic.

*You are right about the number of people lifted out of poverty. It is a source of dissatisfaction within the Communist Party who seem to believe it's not good enough.

Yes of course I know Saki is Japanese but this high ranking man had a taste for saki and he was at the time 73 and skulled the schooner glass, needed help from other Aussies on the cruise. Yes I also remember as we were on our train trip from North to south there were these giant elevated concrete staunchions in the distance and that was the new high speed train link. I'm glad I visited China because I love history and different cultures. The forbidden city was a pretty impressive place and I went to the Terracotta factory and had 2 miniature statues, one a general the other an archer shipped back to Australia along with a large handmade rug. My thoughts are if the were less politics and politicians in the world the planet would be a better place.

 

[Morgan]

Yes of course I know Saki is Japanese but this high ranking man had a taste for saki and he was at the time 73 and skulled the schooner glass, needed help from other Aussies on the cruise. Yes I also remember as we were on our train trip from North to south there were these giant elevated concrete staunchions in the distance and that was the new high speed train link. I'm glad I visited China because I love history and different cultures. The forbidden city was a pretty impressive place and I went to the Terracotta factory and had 2 miniature statues, one a general the other an archer shipped back to Australia along with a large handmade rug. My thoughts are if the were less politics and politicians in the world the planet would be a better place.

Amen to that!

 

[RedV01]

Interesting! I want to go there with JoDragon and test that famous 4000 year old liquor.

Jo Dragon on the drink in China is what fhey call a bull in a China shop

 

[Eric]

* I'm sure you are right about the highways but most of their effort goes into trains. Now they have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined and are expanding it quickly. 15 years ago they had 0km of it.

Isn't the maglev in Shanghai over 15 years old?
BTW in case you caught it, in my post above I meant the alternatives to Huawei are behind in tech and more expensive, not cheaper.

 

[RedV01]

Isn't the maglev in Shanghai over 15 years old?
BTW in case you caught it, in my post above I meant the alternatives to Huawei are behind in tech and more expensive, not cheaper.

Maglev isn't rail.

 

[Edward]

Maglev isn't rail.

Correct. It is really strange feeling riding on it. Really smooth and apart from a hum, feels like not moving at all. But looking out the window, it cruises past vehicles on the road like they are barely moving when in fact, they are probably doing about 100km per hour.

Isn't the maglev in Shanghai over 15 years old?
BTW in case you caught it, in my post above I meant the alternatives to Huawei are behind in tech and more expensive, not cheaper.

Also correct. I think it is a little over 15 years old. I saw that but figured it was a typo.

 

[jodragon40]

Caught that train from Shanghai to Beijing originally got into the wrong seats and car but worked it out in the end. I remember that it hit a speed of 265km ph very fast very smooth. It had been around for about 8 yrs when I caught it.

 

[Edward]

Caught that train from Shanghai to Beijing originally got into the wrong seats and car but worked it out in the end. I remember that it hit a speed of 265km ph very fast very smooth. It had been around for about 8 yrs when I caught it.

That is the high speed rail, not the maglev. The maglev cruises at a little under 500kph and runs from the airport outside Shanghai into a central region of Shanghai.

 

[GCRV]

Talking of China, well done to Manly for giving the half Chinese #9 a chance. I know it's only trials but he's killing the Rorters. Similar to our Connor Mulheisen. Built low to the ground, though Connor is taller, quick out of dummy half, crisp, accurate passing out of dummy half. Good defender though from what I've seen of both, admittedly not much, Connor is a better one on one defender and no idea is this Manly hooker can kick but we know Connor can.

Unfortunately for Connor, Hook recruited the superstar Jacob Liddle so Connor will have to bide his time in the lower grades.

 

[GCRV]

Edward you had better let them know over there, the NRL is going into battle with China! This is getting so ridiculous it's making the "pro-Ukrainian" group penciled in for the Nord Stream terrorist attack look credible!

PASIFIKA PUSH THE BEST WAY TO FIGHT CHINA?​

Australia’s political fight to keep Chinese influence at bay in the Pacific could provide a path for the North Sydney Bears to return to the NRL. We can reveal the Bears are weighing up whether to align themselves with NRL bid teams from Pasifika or Papua New Guinea – and it could help in the ongoing battle against China to win hearts, minds and wallets in that region.

The Bears played their last game in the premiership in 1999 but refused to give up hope of a fairytale return. China may yet prove their greatest ally in their bid to become the NRL’s 18th team. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has already thrown his support behind an NRL team in Papua New Guinea and Bears board member Billy Moore confirmed they are open to exploring the concept of a joint bid.

“What we’ve said to the NRL is you tell us where we need to go to become the 18th team,” Moore said. “Our fans will go with us. We’ve waited 24 years. “All we want is to be back into the competition. Whether that is in Perth, Port Moresby or Wellington. But, during discussions, what has arisen is the prospect of becoming the Pasifika Bears.”

A Pasifika Bears amalgamation would put them in direct competition with an existing Papua New Guinea bid – officials from that country are exploring their own options after being buoyed by Albanese’s public support. It is understood the successful bidder could have access to millions in government support, given the desire to ward off the Chinese influence in the area and improve cultural ties with Australia.

Remarkably, rugby league’s importance in the fight for influence in the Pacific has made it all the way to the American capital. The Washington Post featured a story in September titled: ‘Can this sport (rugby league) outmatch China in the Pacific? The West is betting on it.’ “We want our colours, our brand and to play two games at North Sydney Oval a year. That will give us our history back. We will completely fund it. We will go wherever the NRL thinks is the best option. We will not cannibalise any other club. We will create extra pathways.”

North Sydney chiefs have had talks about joining the potential Perth bid, having previously failed to return to the NRL as the Central Coast Bears. Ex-Canterbury CEO Andrew Hill, who is the strategic advisor to PNG’s 2025 hopes, said the bid team was making progress. However, Brisbane Jets director Nick Livermore has major logistic concerns about a PNG or Pasifika NRL team.

“Where can a Pacific team be appropriately based? How do you fund it commercially and corporately in Cairns?” he said. “It would be a very complex process logistically, but the game is driven by money and if a Pasifika team can attract major funds for the game, the NRL might decide to explore that region.”

Rugby league could emerge as the saviour in the Pacific and the Bears, a 1908 foundation club, could be the key.

 

[GCRV]

It's probably more about cashing in on the Chinese money pouring into the South Pacific islands but to say that isn't politically correct.

 

[Morgan]

Edward you had better let them know over there, the NRL is going into battle with China! This is getting so ridiculous it's making the "pro-Ukrainian" group penciled in for the Nord Stream terrorist attack look credible!

PASIFIKA PUSH THE BEST WAY TO FIGHT CHINA?​

Australia’s political fight to keep Chinese influence at bay in the Pacific could provide a path for the North Sydney Bears to return to the NRL. We can reveal the Bears are weighing up whether to align themselves with NRL bid teams from Pasifika or Papua New Guinea – and it could help in the ongoing battle against China to win hearts, minds and wallets in that region.

The Bears played their last game in the premiership in 1999 but refused to give up hope of a fairytale return. China may yet prove their greatest ally in their bid to become the NRL’s 18th team. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has already thrown his support behind an NRL team in Papua New Guinea and Bears board member Billy Moore confirmed they are open to exploring the concept of a joint bid.

“What we’ve said to the NRL is you tell us where we need to go to become the 18th team,” Moore said. “Our fans will go with us. We’ve waited 24 years. “All we want is to be back into the competition. Whether that is in Perth, Port Moresby or Wellington. But, during discussions, what has arisen is the prospect of becoming the Pasifika Bears.”

A Pasifika Bears amalgamation would put them in direct competition with an existing Papua New Guinea bid – officials from that country are exploring their own options after being buoyed by Albanese’s public support. It is understood the successful bidder could have access to millions in government support, given the desire to ward off the Chinese influence in the area and improve cultural ties with Australia.

Remarkably, rugby league’s importance in the fight for influence in the Pacific has made it all the way to the American capital. The Washington Post featured a story in September titled: ‘Can this sport (rugby league) outmatch China in the Pacific? The West is betting on it.’ “We want our colours, our brand and to play two games at North Sydney Oval a year. That will give us our history back. We will completely fund it. We will go wherever the NRL thinks is the best option. We will not cannibalise any other club. We will create extra pathways.”

North Sydney chiefs have had talks about joining the potential Perth bid, having previously failed to return to the NRL as the Central Coast Bears. Ex-Canterbury CEO Andrew Hill, who is the strategic advisor to PNG’s 2025 hopes, said the bid team was making progress. However, Brisbane Jets director Nick Livermore has major logistic concerns about a PNG or Pasifika NRL team.

“Where can a Pacific team be appropriately based? How do you fund it commercially and corporately in Cairns?” he said. “It would be a very complex process logistically, but the game is driven by money and if a Pasifika team can attract major funds for the game, the NRL might decide to explore that region.”

Rugby league could emerge as the saviour in the Pacific and the Bears, a 1908 foundation club, could be the key.

No matter what one thinks about what is going on in Ukraine, that Nord Stream story was ridiculous. It's strange they couldn't come up with something more credible.

 

[GCRV]

No matter what one thinks about what is going on in Ukraine, that Nord Stream story was ridiculous. It's strange they couldn't come up with something more credible.

They are furiously trying to backtrack on that now. Now they are citing some "open source" guy in Denmark who found out a Greek tanker was in the area for 7 days just before the explosion.