Politics, Militarism and War

[Eric]

I hate to bring this up again but it's important, very important. It's the off season after all. I'm not mentioning anything in particular as the cause for all these heart attacks. It's just I just saw this:

Lisa Marie Presley has died in hospital aged 54​

The daughter of Elvis Presley has died in hospital after earlier suffering a cardiac arrest at her California home.​

Lisa Marie Presley, the daughter of rock legend Elvis Presley, has died after suffering a cardiac arrest. The 54-year-old was found by her ex-husband Danny Keough and her housekeeper after she collapsed at her home in Calabasas, California.

Keough performed CPR until paramedics arrived and were able to get a pulse on the singer-songwriter and she was transported to West Hills hospital and placed in a medically-induced coma.

Her mum, Priscilla Presley, 77, made the mercy dash to be by her daughter’s side at the hospital, before confirming the tragic news. “It is with a heavy heart that I must share the devastating news that my beautiful daughter Lisa Marie has left us,” Priscilla confirmed in a statement.
View attachment 227

You know I agree fully and hate the fact we can't say what we want. But at this point we can't. Speaking for myself, I have no issue at all if you talk about it. In fact, I find it interesting but again, please suggest, insinuate and etc as much as you like but don't specifically say any of those 'forbidden words'. Relating to 2 large corporations in particular and their relatively new, widely used products.

 

[GCRV]

I hate to bring this up again but it's important, very important. It's the off season after all. I'm not mentioning anything in particular as the cause for all these heart attacks. It's just I just saw this:

Lisa Marie Presley has died in hospital aged 54​

The daughter of Elvis Presley has died in hospital after earlier suffering a cardiac arrest at her California home.​

Lisa Marie Presley, the daughter of rock legend Elvis Presley, has died after suffering a cardiac arrest. The 54-year-old was found by her ex-husband Danny Keough and her housekeeper after she collapsed at her home in Calabasas, California.

Keough performed CPR until paramedics arrived and were able to get a pulse on the singer-songwriter and she was transported to West Hills hospital and placed in a medically-induced coma.

Her mum, Priscilla Presley, 77, made the mercy dash to be by her daughter’s side at the hospital, before confirming the tragic news. “It is with a heavy heart that I must share the devastating news that my beautiful daughter Lisa Marie has left us,” Priscilla confirmed in a statement.
View attachment 227

This is happening so much! The Russian Sputnik V vaccine is apparently very safe and highly effective.

You know I agree fully and hate the fact we can't say what we want. But at this point we can't. Speaking for myself, I have no issue at all if you talk about it. In fact, I find it interesting but again, please suggest, insinuate and etc as much as you like but don't specifically say any of those 'forbidden words'. Relating to 2 large corporations in particular and their relatively new, widely used products.

Why can't he say it? The Gov will take the website down?

 

[Eric]

This is happening so much! The Russian Sputnik V vaccine is apparently very safe and highly effective.

Why can't he say it? The Gov will take the website down?

I'm a free speech absolutist. But certain governments and large corporations aren't.

 

[GCRV]

I'm a free speech absolutist. But certain governments and large corporations aren't. One in particular can and often does remove websites from its platform. If this website were getting 100K visitors a day, that meme for example would probably have to go. As is, it's probably safe to say whatever you want but my attitude is, why risk it?

Okay. What else is verbotten? Talking of militarism and war, are we allowed to take a pro-Russia position in the war in the Ukraine? One democratic country is fighting and beating basically the entire authoritarian alliance. Militarily and economically. Now we the question of where the hammer is going to fall. A sea bourne attack to liberate Odessa? An attack from Belarus to liberate Kiev? An attack from Belarus to occupy the western border with Poland to cut off NATO supplies? A faint with any of those 3 for a large offensive in the east? Place your bets!

In Ukraine, “There’s Something Happening There”

sonar21.com

 

[Eric]

Okay. What else is verbotten? Talking of militarism and war, are we allowed to take a pro-Russia position in the war in the Ukraine? One democratic country is fighting and beating basically the entire authoritarian alliance. Militarily and economically. Now we the question of where the hammer is going to fall. A sea bourne attack to liberate Odessa? An attack from Belarus to liberate Kiev? An attack from Belarus to occupy the western border with Poland to cut off NATO supplies? A faint with any of those 3 for a large offensive in the east? Place your bets!

In Ukraine, “There’s Something Happening There”

sonar21.com

That's an interesting article. I think the attack will come from Belarus to take Kiev. I think pro-Russian views are allowed but to be honest, these days I just don't know. The only side I'm on is for Australia to stay out of it. Why are you on the Russian side? I mean, Russia is invading, not vice versa.

 

[GCRV]

The only side I'm on is for Australia to stay out of it.

Too late.

Why are you on the Russian side? I mean, Russia is invading, not vice versa.

A timeline of events:

• Regan promises Gorbachev NATO won't move one inch past the present day borders of Germany if the Red Army pulls out. This is problem 1.

Much more recently

• The EU wants Ukraine to join the EU trade bloc and Russia wants Ukraine to join its trade bloc.
• The democratically government, which has angered Putin for not taking a pro-Russia position, reviews what's on offer and opts to join the Russian bloc. No indication at all that wasn't according to the wishes of the majority of the population.
• USA and EU openly back anti government protests and uses out and out Nazi's to escalate it into riots.
• An agreement signed off on by Germany, France and Poland for early elections is signed.
• The next day the Nazis start shooting people and blaming it on the police.
• The government flees and the coup is complete. The entire collective west rushes to recognise the coup regime including the 3 countries which had just the day before signed off on being guarantors for early elections.
• A lot of Ukrainians refuse to accept the coup regime. The far right coup regime which has many high ranking out and out Nazis in it.
• The Nazis send the army in to kill the people fighting back against the coup regime.
• The army is routed.
• The leaders of France and Germany rush to Moscow to push for a cease fire. Much to the fury of the Donbas militia, Putin forces them to stop the offensive.
• The Minsk accords are signed, guaranteed and signed off on by France and Germany. (We will revisit this later.)

 

[GCRV]

At this point, it's a good time to state that for it's entire history until 1991, the Ukraine was just another oblast of Russia. A region maybe about the size of Victoria. The Soviets increase the size of the Ukraine by about 300%. Later Stalin adds parts of Hungary and Romania to punish them for the invasion of the Soviet Union. Later still the Ukrainian Khrushchev adds the Crimea to the Ukraine. Purely ceremonial.

So back to how we got here:

• All the pro-Russian parties, even nominally pro-Russian parties in the Ukraine are banned.
• On the Ukrainian side, unabashed Nazis are on the front line.
• Observers from the OSCE are sent it to see who isn't adhering to the terms of the Minsk Accords. The Donbas militia complains that they are spies. This is later proven to be true.
• The Nazis refuse to follow the terms of the Minsk Accords.
• Ukraine becomes an economic basket case. In such an environment, Nazi ideology finds fertile land to bloom.
• Somewhat earlier, people peacefully protesting against the coup regime in Odessa, mostly women, are burned alive by the Nazis. Not a word about it by the collective West regimes. After that, no one is in a hurry to protest even though in the ensuing years the regime is spectacularly unpopular.

 

[GCRV]

• New elections, minus the pro-Russian parties, whom opinion polls show have the support of the majority of the population.
• Zelensky runs on a ticket of ending the war in the east and repairing relations with Russia. He also says the time has come for 2 languages to stop being used within the government and that Russian should be the only language. (apparently Ukrainian is very close to Russian. Basically a dialect.)
• Zelensky wins the election.
• He goes to the front line in the east, literally asks the Nazis to stop shelling Donetsk and other communities. He is laughed at. Given a kick up the backside and sent on his way.
• Ukraine becomes a Nazi terror state outright while before it was only in pockets.
• The first president after the coup says openly the Minsk Accords were a sham Ukraine never had any intention of fulfilling.
• The war starts.
• The then president of France and Chancellor of Germany openly admit the Minsk Accords were a sham they never had any intention of pressuring Ukraine to fulfill. A week later, just in case anyone missed it the first time, Merkel says it again.

At the point I should point out the Minsk Accords were co-signed by France and Germany and made into international law via a unanimous vote in UNSC, including USA, Uk, France.

So that's it. Why I'm pro-Russian in this war.

 

[Eric]

Too late.

A timeline of events:

• Regan promises Gorbachev NATO won't move one inch past the present day borders of Germany if the Red Army pulls out. This is problem 1.

Much more recently

• The EU wants Ukraine to join the EU trade bloc and Russia wants Ukraine to join its trade bloc.
• The democratically government, which has angered Putin for not taking a pro-Russia position, reviews what's on offer and opts to join the Russian bloc. No indication at all that wasn't according to the wishes of the majority of the population.
• USA and EU openly back anti government protests and uses out and out Nazi's to escalate it into riots.
• An agreement signed off on by Germany, France and Poland for early elections is signed.
• The next day the Nazis start shooting people and blaming it on the police.
• The government flees and the coup is complete. The entire collective west rushes to recognise the coup regime including the 3 countries which had just the day before signed off on being guarantors for early elections.
• A lot of Ukrainians refuse to accept the coup regime. The far right coup regime which has many high ranking out and out Nazis in it.
• The Nazis send the army in to kill the people fighting back against the coup regime.
• The army is routed.
• The leaders of France and Germany rush to Moscow to push for a cease fire. Much to the fury of the Donbas militia, Putin forces them to stop the offensive.
• The Minsk accords are signed, guaranteed and signed off on by France and Germany. (We will revisit this later.)

Interesting but there are two sides to every story.

 

[GCRV]

Interesting but there are two sides to every story.

No doubt but I nominated facts. Anything else is just a fictional story.

 

[Morgan]

Too late.

A timeline of events:

• Regan promises Gorbachev NATO won't move one inch past the present day borders of Germany if the Red Army pulls out. This is problem 1.

Much more recently

• The EU wants Ukraine to join the EU trade bloc and Russia wants Ukraine to join its trade bloc.
• The democratically government, which has angered Putin for not taking a pro-Russia position, reviews what's on offer and opts to join the Russian bloc. No indication at all that wasn't according to the wishes of the majority of the population.
• USA and EU openly back anti government protests and uses out and out Nazi's to escalate it into riots.
• An agreement signed off on by Germany, France and Poland for early elections is signed.
• The next day the Nazis start shooting people and blaming it on the police.
• The government flees and the coup is complete. The entire collective west rushes to recognise the coup regime including the 3 countries which had just the day before signed off on being guarantors for early elections.
• A lot of Ukrainians refuse to accept the coup regime. The far right coup regime which has many high ranking out and out Nazis in it.
• The Nazis send the army in to kill the people fighting back against the coup regime.
• The army is routed.
• The leaders of France and Germany rush to Moscow to push for a cease fire. Much to the fury of the Donbas militia, Putin forces them to stop the offensive.
• The Minsk accords are signed, guaranteed and signed off on by France and Germany. (We will revisit this later.)

I think one thing one could argue about is the number of neo-Nazis. Russians are saying it's a full on Nazi state and Western media is saying there are basically none. Everyone has seen the photos and videos of the torch light parades and etc but out of 40+ million people, it's a tiny minority.

 

[Morgan]

1. New elections, minus the pro-Russian parties, whom opinion polls show have the support of the majority of the population.
2. Zelensky runs on a ticket of ending the war in the east and repairing relations with Russia. He also says the time has come for 2 languages to stop being used within the government and that Russian should be the only language. (apparently Ukrainian is very close to Russian. Basically a dialect.)
3. Zelensky wins the election.
4. He goes to the front line in the east, literally asks the Nazis to stop shelling Donetsk and other communities. He is laughed at. Given a kick up the backside and sent on his way.
5. Ukraine becomes a Nazi terror state outright while before it was only in pockets.
6. The first president after the coup says openly the Minsk Accords were a sham Ukraine never had any intention of fulfilling.
7. The war starts.
8. The then president of France and Chancellor of Germany openly admit the Minsk Accords were a sham they never had any intention of pressuring Ukraine to fulfill. A week later, just in case anyone missed it the first time, Merkel says it again.

At the point I should point out the Minsk Accords were co-signed by France and Germany and made into international law via a unanimous vote in UNSC, including USA, Uk, France.

So that's it. Why I'm pro-Russian in this war.

Where did you hear about #4?
Also, is Russia totally blameless? Not done anything wrong until the invasion? Like annexing Crimea?

 

[GCRV]

I think one thing one could argue about is the number of neo-Nazis. Russians are saying it's a full on Nazi state and Western media is saying there are basically none. Everyone has seen the photos and videos of the torch light parades and etc but out of 40+ million people, it's a tiny minority.

The overall head of the Ukrainian army, someone celebrated in Western media, wears around a bracelet decorated with swastikas and proudly photographs himself in front of the image of a murderous Nazi collaborator.

Said Nazi has a national holiday to mark his birth along with monuments and streets named after him all over western Ukraine.

One of the head Nazis, leader of C14 (named after 14 famous words Hitler said.) is on video during a radio interview shortly before the war boasting about how Nazis are only about 10% of the population but thanks to NATO arming them to the teeth, they have all the power in the Ukraine.

 

[Eric]

The overall head of the Ukrainian army, someone celebrated in Western media, wears around a bracelet decorated with swastikas and proudly photographs himself in front of the image of a murderous Nazi collaborator.

Said Nazi has a national holiday to mark his birth along with monuments and streets named after him all over western Ukraine.

One of the head Nazis, leader of C14 (named after 14 famous words Hitler said.) is on video during a radio interview shortly before the war boasting about how Nazis are only about 10% of the population but thanks to NATO arming them to the teeth, they have all the power in the Ukraine.

It's an interesting view on the situation. I really don't know about it well enough to argue but I know it's absurd the way western media and governments talk about this guy Zelensky as some kind of great democrat or liberal. I don't take sides. I just want Australia to stay out of it completely. That is the only side I support.

We are a relatively small and isolated country. Could just keep quiet and trade and be friends with everyone. The rest of the world would barely know we are here while we cash in.

 

[GCRV]

It's an interesting view on the situation. I really don't know about it well enough to argue but I know it's absurd the way western media and governments talk about this guy Zelensky as some kind of great democrat or liberal. I don't take sides. I just want Australia to stay out of it completely. That is the only side I support.

We are a relatively small and isolated country. Could just keep quiet and trade and be friends with everyone. The rest of the world would barely know we are here while we cash in.

In theory it's a nice idea but if we were cashing in, the rest of the world would suddenly notice.

 

[GCRV]

It seems my friend RedVHeartbeat also thinks Russia's Vladimir Putin is seriously ill. This isn't surprising. Some part of the mainstream media has been saying he's terminally ill for years while it seems all has been saying he's terminally ill for the last year. Meanwhile Putin strolls out shirtless in sub zero temperatures and takes a dip in a hole cut into the ice.

 

[Morgan]

It seems my friend RedVHeartbeat also thinks Russia's Vladimir Putin is seriously ill. This isn't surprising. Some part of the mainstream media has been saying he's terminally ill for years while it seems all has been saying he's terminally ill for for the last year. meanwhile Putin strolls out shirtless in sub zero temperatures and takes a dip in a hole cut into the ice.

Whatever else we can or want to say about him, he's not seriously ill.