Ryan
SGI NSW Cup
Why? I thought he's 17 now. So I'm saying possibly when he's 19. Lots of 19 year olds in first grade.
Recruitment and Retention for 2026
- Thread starter Dragons Chris
- Start date
Mailroomsgi
SGI NSW Cup
He turns 17 this year, we shouldn’t ’expect’ young players to be fixtures in the NRL 17 at 19/20 YO though.
He should progress at his own pace through Matt’s ball flegg etc. and if he’s tearing up trees in cup at 19 depending on the context he might play some NRL then but it’s highly unlikely Burton is playing NRL regularly until 2029 at least
He should progress at his own pace through Matt’s ball flegg etc. and if he’s tearing up trees in cup at 19 depending on the context he might play some NRL then but it’s highly unlikely Burton is playing NRL regularly until 2029 at least
Ryan
SGI NSW Cup
Teenagers are usually promoted to first grade due to a lack of options. Something we might have in 2 years. Plenty of time to wait and see how he progresses or what other fullback options we have when Gutho retires.
Frank Facer
SGI Jersey Flegg
I just looked up Reese Walsh's contract and it said in 1924 Walsh signed a 4 year contract with Brissy for 5 mil. That equates to 1.2 mil. I wonder how much more there is in 3rd party deals or undocumented deals, such as jobs for partners or family members, property deals on the cheap or cash in hand. If Walsh went on the open market and was only paid salary cap money, I think he would be getting offers between 1.4-1.5 mil year. He was looking brilliant in 2023 and then slipped back in 2024, then started off the year poorly in 2025 and then finished off the year looking like the best player in the comp. I had him in my supercoach team to start the year off with and held him until he got injured and then didn't put him back in at the end of the year as I was down to my last trades and couldn't put in. He then went onto score off the chart for the last several rounds.
Regarding Burton. He is only 16 and at least another 2 years away from playing first grade, if he is special. I watched his highlights reel and it was OK but not yeah, he is definitely our future fullback. We have had so many young fullbacks who we thought/hoped would be long term first graders and none of them have lived up to expectations. We have had a few halves in the same bracket. Fullback, 5/8, halfback prop are the hardest positions to fill with quality. They are also the highest paid positions and most sought after. If I was Flanno or Anderson, they are the positions I would be looking to recruit the best and pay the highest and build a team around. Koloamatangi is the first one. I wouldn't be relying on or hoping for our youngsters to be the ones to fill those positions. I would be going to the marketplace and going for the ones I want in those positions. If Burton is good enough, he could also start on the wing or centre, like many good fullbacks have done so in the past, including Minichello, RTS, Tom Turbo, Slater, Inglis, Hayne and Ponga all did. He has the size to play those positions. If he is even better, he could then be our number 1. Melbourne have been very successful in having great halves, fullback and hooker. Those are the positions they build their team around. Smith and Grant are the 2 best hookers of the last 20 years plus. There aren't too many hookers who are worth big money. Canterbury, as successful as they have been in the market place of late, still haven't been able to sign a top halfback (Galvin is a 5/8) or a top fullback, but they are trying to.
Ryan
SGI NSW Cup
There is also the fullback from NZ Rugby. I think his name is Rokko Walker.
He is also just 16. So we may have the makings of a great 2030 backline.
jodragon40
Staff
Last season Gutho showed great leadership qualities, the lads always rallied around him. That is now tempered with he was showing his age, some poor defensive reads and has lost some speed. Now if that was as a result of an unknown injury or lack of fitness I can live with that but if it was an indicator that he has reached his prime then that's a concern.
I mentioned a few times last season that our return the ball from kicks was the worst in the league. The opposition were actually kicking to him with full knowledge that he wasn't going to break the tackle or scamper up the field and initiate open field plays.
That is a concern because anyone with a footballing brain , played or coached will acknowledge that the first 1 - 3 hitups following a kick return sets up the tone of your attacking options and structures and dictates just where on the field you are kicking from.
It was a concern last year, lets see if we have done our homework in that area of the game.
I mentioned a few times last season that our return the ball from kicks was the worst in the league. The opposition were actually kicking to him with full knowledge that he wasn't going to break the tackle or scamper up the field and initiate open field plays.
That is a concern because anyone with a footballing brain , played or coached will acknowledge that the first 1 - 3 hitups following a kick return sets up the tone of your attacking options and structures and dictates just where on the field you are kicking from.
It was a concern last year, lets see if we have done our homework in that area of the game.
Frank Facer
SGI Jersey Flegg
In 2002 I went to the World Sevens with some mates. One of my mates has a good eye for talent and we would often agree on many things Rugby League and on players quality or potential. At that Sevens tournament my mate picked out Sonny Bill Williams and said he was going to be a mad a centre, or words to that effect. He put the biggest wrap on him you could. He didn't know he was a second rower. We had never heard of him. He was one of the best young talents to play the game. Some people have a good eye for identifying talent. I put myself in that boat, based off past results. As soon as I saw Nathan Cleary debut at 17, I was saying I would pick him for NSW the next year, aged 18. I always would have liked to be a recruitment officer for Saints. The really good backs should be ready by 19. The really good forwards by 21. Props can take a bit longer to mature and handle the rigors of first grade.
I remember Laurie Daley at 17 or 18 and he was one of the best players I have seen and that was when he was still in his teens. Same with Brad Clyde at 19 years old. I was saying they would both be immortals when they were in their teens. If it wasn't for injuries they would have been. They were both better at 18-21 than they were at 25 and older, after each had had several injuries. Back in the late 80's there were many players who debuted aged 17 or 18 and who were playing great football at that age.
Brad McKay debut for us while still at school aged 18. Played origin at 20
Laurie Daley was was 17 when he debuted for Canberra, played origin at 19.
Brad Clyde was 18 when he debuted for Canberra played origin at Played origin at 19 and won Clive Churchill medal at 19.
Tim Brasher debuted for Balmain at 18, while still at school and he played in the Grand Final that year.
Brad Fittler was 17 and 349 days old when he debuted for Penrith and 18 when he debuted for NSW.
Jamie Ainscough was 17 or 18 when he debuted ( I used to go to the beach with him and other Harold Mathews players when I was 13 to 15).
Terry Hill debuted for Souths at age 18.
Jim Serdaris debuted at 17 for Souths.
Brett Mullins was 18 when he debuted for Canberra.
Jim Dymock was 19 when he debuted for the Gold Coast.
Hill, Dymock, Mullins and Serdaris all played in the same junior club team Zetland. How good would that team have been? I think they had another one or 2 who played first grade in the same team.
Darrell Trindal was 17 and 29 days when he debuted for Souths and still at school.
Andrew Ettinghausen was 17 when he debuted for Cronulla.
Dennis Kinchella debuted for us while still at school. I think he was 17 at the time.
Mal Meninga was 18 when he debuted for QLD.
Phil Blake was 18 when he debuted and he was outstanding in his debut season, winning rookie of the year. Terry Lamb 18 when debuted for Wests, played origin at 19
In the 90's
John Simon debuted for Illawarra at 17, played origin at 19
Anthony Mundine was 18 when he debuted for Saints.
Brett Dallas 18 when debuted for Qld
Ben Ikin 18 when he debuted for Qld, during Super League origin series
Trent Barrett 18 when debuted for Illawarra, 19 played origin during super league series
Wendall Sailor was 18 when he debuted for Brisbane
Jamie Lyon was 18 when he debuted for Parra
In 2000's
Sonny Bill was 18 when he debuted for Canterbury
Benji Marshal was 18 when he debuted for Wests
Greg Inglis debuted at 18, origin at 19
Karmichael Hunt 17 when debuted for Brisbane, 19 when he played origin
Braith Anasta debuted at 18
Mark Gasnier debuted for us at 18
Mitchell Pearce was 17 when he debuted, played origin at 19
Dave Taylor was 17 when he debuted. (he looked much much older)
Jamal Idris was 18 when he debuted, played origin at 19
Israel Folau was 17 when he debuted Melbourne, played origin at 19
Jarrod Hayne was 18 when he debuted for Parra, played origin at 19
Tom Turbo debuted at 18 for Manly
Kaylan Ponga 18 when debuted for Nth Qld
Cam Murray 19 when debuted for Souths
Now players are not allowed to debut until 18.
Bradman Best 18 when debuted for Newcastle
Reece Walsh 18 when debuted for NZ Warriors
Joseph Sua'ali'i debuted at 17 (I think an exception was made for him)
Lachlan Galvin 18 when debuted for Wests
Leka Halasima 18 when debuted for NZ Warriors. I rate him very highly and think he will have a massive year
Casey McLean 18 when debuted for Penrith. I rate him very highly and would love for us to sign him. I would like to see him given a run at fullback, he may even replace Dylan Edwards there.
Both Couchman brothers debuted for us at 19. That is very young for forwards. Gives me even more confidence they will be top first graders.
Loko Pasifika Tonga debuted at 19 for us last year. Again gives me more confidence he will be a topline prop for us. With Koloamatangi, Pasifika Tonga and the Couchman brothers, we will have one of the best prop rotations in the comp by next year. Things are looking really good.
Jaxon Purdue 18 when debuted for Nth Qld. I rate him extremely highly. After compiling this list I see even ore reason to offer him a mil a year to play for us at halfback, 5/8 or fullback.
When I was growing up, there was a saying, if they are good enough, they are old enough.
Maybe with players being bigger, stronger from more weights and more Polynesians it doesn't happen as often as in the 80's.
I remember Laurie Daley at 17 or 18 and he was one of the best players I have seen and that was when he was still in his teens. Same with Brad Clyde at 19 years old. I was saying they would both be immortals when they were in their teens. If it wasn't for injuries they would have been. They were both better at 18-21 than they were at 25 and older, after each had had several injuries. Back in the late 80's there were many players who debuted aged 17 or 18 and who were playing great football at that age.
Brad McKay debut for us while still at school aged 18. Played origin at 20
Laurie Daley was was 17 when he debuted for Canberra, played origin at 19.
Brad Clyde was 18 when he debuted for Canberra played origin at Played origin at 19 and won Clive Churchill medal at 19.
Tim Brasher debuted for Balmain at 18, while still at school and he played in the Grand Final that year.
Brad Fittler was 17 and 349 days old when he debuted for Penrith and 18 when he debuted for NSW.
Jamie Ainscough was 17 or 18 when he debuted ( I used to go to the beach with him and other Harold Mathews players when I was 13 to 15).
Terry Hill debuted for Souths at age 18.
Jim Serdaris debuted at 17 for Souths.
Brett Mullins was 18 when he debuted for Canberra.
Jim Dymock was 19 when he debuted for the Gold Coast.
Hill, Dymock, Mullins and Serdaris all played in the same junior club team Zetland. How good would that team have been? I think they had another one or 2 who played first grade in the same team.
Darrell Trindal was 17 and 29 days when he debuted for Souths and still at school.
Andrew Ettinghausen was 17 when he debuted for Cronulla.
Dennis Kinchella debuted for us while still at school. I think he was 17 at the time.
Mal Meninga was 18 when he debuted for QLD.
Phil Blake was 18 when he debuted and he was outstanding in his debut season, winning rookie of the year. Terry Lamb 18 when debuted for Wests, played origin at 19
In the 90's
John Simon debuted for Illawarra at 17, played origin at 19
Anthony Mundine was 18 when he debuted for Saints.
Brett Dallas 18 when debuted for Qld
Ben Ikin 18 when he debuted for Qld, during Super League origin series
Trent Barrett 18 when debuted for Illawarra, 19 played origin during super league series
Wendall Sailor was 18 when he debuted for Brisbane
Jamie Lyon was 18 when he debuted for Parra
In 2000's
Sonny Bill was 18 when he debuted for Canterbury
Benji Marshal was 18 when he debuted for Wests
Greg Inglis debuted at 18, origin at 19
Karmichael Hunt 17 when debuted for Brisbane, 19 when he played origin
Braith Anasta debuted at 18
Mark Gasnier debuted for us at 18
Mitchell Pearce was 17 when he debuted, played origin at 19
Dave Taylor was 17 when he debuted. (he looked much much older)
Jamal Idris was 18 when he debuted, played origin at 19
Israel Folau was 17 when he debuted Melbourne, played origin at 19
Jarrod Hayne was 18 when he debuted for Parra, played origin at 19
Tom Turbo debuted at 18 for Manly
Kaylan Ponga 18 when debuted for Nth Qld
Cam Murray 19 when debuted for Souths
Now players are not allowed to debut until 18.
Bradman Best 18 when debuted for Newcastle
Reece Walsh 18 when debuted for NZ Warriors
Joseph Sua'ali'i debuted at 17 (I think an exception was made for him)
Lachlan Galvin 18 when debuted for Wests
Leka Halasima 18 when debuted for NZ Warriors. I rate him very highly and think he will have a massive year
Casey McLean 18 when debuted for Penrith. I rate him very highly and would love for us to sign him. I would like to see him given a run at fullback, he may even replace Dylan Edwards there.
Both Couchman brothers debuted for us at 19. That is very young for forwards. Gives me even more confidence they will be top first graders.
Loko Pasifika Tonga debuted at 19 for us last year. Again gives me more confidence he will be a topline prop for us. With Koloamatangi, Pasifika Tonga and the Couchman brothers, we will have one of the best prop rotations in the comp by next year. Things are looking really good.
Jaxon Purdue 18 when debuted for Nth Qld. I rate him extremely highly. After compiling this list I see even ore reason to offer him a mil a year to play for us at halfback, 5/8 or fullback.
When I was growing up, there was a saying, if they are good enough, they are old enough.
Maybe with players being bigger, stronger from more weights and more Polynesians it doesn't happen as often as in the 80's.
Frank Facer
SGI Jersey Flegg
I agree with everything you said. I wasn't the one saying that once Gutho retires Burton will take his place. Maybe, you got me mixed up with Ryan's post? (no worries) I said we should be going to the market place and looking to sign the best players at fullback, in the halves and prop, we got our first one in Koloamantagi. They are the hardest positions to fill with quality and the most important positions. I even said, Burton could start on the wing or in the centres first before moving to fullback if he is that good. Relying on juniors potentially building a premiership winning team, hasn't worked for us or anyone else, besides Penrith. If they didn't have Nathan Cleary, would they have even won any comps? Cleary didn't grow up in the Penrith district, playing for Penrith juniors. He was there because his father was coaching the Penrith first grade team and was left there after Ivan was sacked and later went to Wests. We must go to the market place and buy the best players, especially at halfback, 5/8, fullback and prop and also be looking to sign the best juniors from all over the country and New Zealand. We do have 2 junior rep teams and from that, we should have more better juniors than all other clubs, Wests are the only other club who can play and recruit 2 junior teams.
Dragons Chris
SGI NSW Cup
We have a couple of young halfbacks. Need to see how they work out. LKT is only 20 as well. Because the best halfbacks cost a lot. And lets not write off Atkinson yet. Give him a chance. Though looks more like a 5/8.
Frank Facer
SGI Jersey Flegg
I don't think Saints have had a top halfback since I have been following us for 45 years. Barrett would or could have been, but he wanted to play 5/8. He and Mundine were the best pair of halves we have had and we came painfully close to winning a comp with them as our halves. Barrett didn't want to play halfback and Mundine wanted to dominate from 5/8 and wouldn't let Barrett control the game. Mundine said something along the lines of, "When I called for the ball I get it" and Brown obliged. If Mundine would have let Barrett run the show, it could have been Sterling and Kenny like and Barrett would have made Mundine look even better. I actually thought we could win several comps with those 2 as our halves. In 1999 I put some bets on with a bookie to win 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 comps in a row. I think we should be going all out to sign the best halfback and 5/8 possible and build the team around them. I know many other clubs are all looking to sign the best halves possible and the best prospective halves. From the little I have seen of Reed, he looks to be a very good playmaker and general, but his lack of size is concerning. I am hopeful of him being really good. I am hoping Atkinson turns out to be good, but as I pointed out in another post, the best backs are usually playing first grade regularly by 19 at the latest. Cherry is an exception. I am struggling to think of any others. A Johns and Thurston both debuted at 19. Sterling was 18. Foran debuted at for Manly at 18 and New Zealand at 19. Greg Alexander was 19 when debuting for Penrith. Brett Kenny a 5/8 and one of the best players I have seen debuted at 19. Shaun Johnson was 19. Steve Mortimer was 19 when he debuted. Cooper Cronk was 21 and that was late. He wasn't a halfback originally. Bellamy converted him into a halfback. Jahrome Hughes is another who didn't debut for Nth Qld until 21, and was originally a fullback who Bellamy converted into a halfback. Alan Langer was 21 when he debuted for Qld. Ricky Stuart was also 21 when he debuted for Canberra, but was a Rugby Union convert and was playing for NSW and Australia by 23. Cliff Lyons was another exception, who debuted at 23.
I doubt very much either Atkinson or LKT will ever play origin. We "must" have an origin standard halfback and 5/8 to win a comp, and a origin standard fullback too. We got lucky with Hornby, Soward and Boyd. Teams who win the comp often have one of the best set of halves, if not the best set of halves and that goes back to 1981 with Sterling and Kenny.
I can pretty much guarantee LKT isn't going to be the player who will win a premiership and I don't see him as a halfback either. We must be aiming higher than him.
Dragons Chris
SGI NSW Cup
Benny Hornby did alright for a "manufactured halfback".
As for LKT, he's 20 years-old for god sake. Was playing last year behind a pack that was already considered weak before being injury decimated. And to top it off, we know who his halves partner was for every game. You are probably right but for gods sake give him a chance!
Dragon David
SGI Jersey Flegg
Getting the best set of halves in this current recruitment market is like finding a couple of needles in a big pile of hay in my opinion Frank. Yes, I agree that Sterling and Kenny were a great set of halves back in the day and without going through the records I am sure that there have been and are several more great combos in the halves.
I would love us to have the best halves combo too as a team can be built around them together with a great fullback, hooker and prop. We get those positions covered and ensure that we have speed in the backs and a good defensive squad, we can then dominate. I hope that this "dream" is not too far away as the years are going by too quickly for my liking.
We didn't have a top halfback but then you said we got lucky with soward and hornby. It's a bit contradictory.
Dragon David
SGI Jersey Flegg
Are you in a position to divulge the names Mug Fan?
Alessandro Tilocca
SGI Junior League
Would assume its Averillo and Taulagi
jodragon40
Staff
Hornby was a special player originally a 6 became a 7 and is a Dragons legend. He is only the 2nd player to play 7 to cpt the Dragons to a premiership.
Manufacture is a harsh word in my view if a player lacks the natural ability to lead and game manager I've found its difficult to create or manufacture a player to perform either role.
The best Dragons 7, I saw play was Billy Smith , so it's been a while since we had the top rated 7.
Both would be great, especially tualagi
Dragons Chris
SGI NSW Cup
Averillo...... hope it's not him.
RufusRex
SGI Jersey Flegg
Appreciate the info - do you think it is a case of us wanting both or are we looking at both with the aim to land one?