Community High Performance Centre (CHPC)

Saints94

SGI Junior League
Yes but this is where their brand comes into it, the Dragons are more popular than most Sydney clubs, there might be 1 or 2 who rival that. That's why I think they should use its brand to grow that dominance in Sydney while at the same time focussing on the South Coast, which is a smaller region and wouldn't take as much effort to sustain.

The Dragons have fans all over Sydney and they should keep using it to their advantage.
I also think growth in Sydney will help them continue to grow their dominance nationally. St George prior to the merger and to this day are popular not just in the South Coast but all throughout country NSW and even QLD where they get solid crowds against the Broncos at suncorp. That was all built with a base in Sydney.
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
Yes but this is where their brand comes into it, the Dragons are more popular than most Sydney clubs, there might be 1 or 2 who rival that. That's why I think they should use its brand to grow that dominance in Sydney while at the same time focussing on the South Coast, which is a smaller region and wouldn't take as much effort to sustain.

The Dragons have fans all over Sydney and they should keep using it to their advantage.
If or when Cronulla are relocated or bankrupted, this debate will go into overdrive. Though it'll take a generation for their supporters to change to the Dragons.
 

Eric

Moderator
Yes but this is where their brand comes into it, the Dragons are more popular than most Sydney clubs, there might be 1 or 2 who rival that. That's why I think they should use its brand to grow that dominance in Sydney while at the same time focussing on the South Coast, which is a smaller region and wouldn't take as much effort to sustain.

The Dragons have fans all over Sydney and they should keep using it to their advantage.
The brand is strong but I think for people outside of Sydney. Sydney is ultra tribal. The won't jump ship to support us because of our superior brand.
 

Ryan

SGI Jersey Flegg
I say most potential fans because Sydney has a population of over 5 million people and the St George region borders the dogs, souths, cronulla, West's and is only about a 30 minute drive from Parra and Roosters territory. The areas are so close that being based in St George gives you easy access to people and major companies all across Sydney.

You also already have St George fans all across Sydney and millions of people who could be potential fans inside or within 5-30 minutes from the St George region.

The Illawarra has a population of 300 thousand people - the Steelers have folded as a club and have been bought out by WIN, it shows that it doesn't have the population to fully support a major club like the Dragons.

It should be embraced as a junior nursery but it doesn't make sense to neglect your Sydney base for the Illawarra.
I think this is mostly an issue because the team has been so bad for the last decade. When games are held at Kogarah, usually only a few 1000 people show up. I think WIN gets comfortably bigger crowds. If the team were better, that would increase but it would for WIN as well.
 

Saints94

SGI Junior League
I think this is mostly an issue because the team has been so bad for the last decade. When games are held at Kogarah, usually only a few 1000 people show up. I think WIN gets comfortably bigger crowds. If the team were better, that would increase but it would for WIN as well.
No thats not true, last year both crowds in Wollongong and Kogarah were at around 10,000 per game and agreed, attendances are impacted by performance but whenever thr Dragons play the ANZAC game, whether it's a home or away game they get around 40,000 people and it's mostly Dragons supporters.
When they play many Sydney teams in Sydney, such as the Rabbits, Eels, Dogs they'll often rival the amount of supporters in the away teams stadium.
 

Saints94

SGI Junior League
The brand is strong but I think for people outside of Sydney. Sydney is ultra tribal. The won't jump ship to support us because of our superior brand.
Sydney is ultra tribal but the Dragons already have plenty of support outside of Sydney which should be embraced, the Illawarra region should also continue to be an important part of the club but they should be primarily based in Sydney
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
No thats not true, last year both crowds in Wollongong and Kogarah were at around 10,000 per game and agreed, attendances are impacted by performance but whenever thr Dragons play the ANZAC game, whether it's a home or away game they get around 40,000 people and it's mostly Dragons supporters.
When they play many Sydney teams in Sydney, such as the Rabbits, Eels, Dogs they'll often rival the amount of supporters in the away teams stadium.
Kogarah crowds were at times way below 10000. Like about half that.
 

Saints94

SGI Junior League
Kogarah crowds were at times way below 10000. Like about half that.
You can read the crowd figures online, it was 7-10,000 for Kogarah and Wollongong and one Kogarah home game on ANZAC day was at the SCG and it got 35,000 people, mostly Saints supporters. When the Dragons are doing well Kogarah gets full but as mentioned, Sydney is key - St George as a club has been around over 100 years while the Illawarra steelers have folded and were bought out by WIN. The power lies in St George/Sydney in terms of fans and money, the Illawarra should continue to be embraced as a nursery and as a way to expand their fan base but it makes more sense for the core of the business to be Sydbey based.
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
You can read the crowd figures online, it was 7-10,000 for Kogarah and Wollongong and one Kogarah home game on ANZAC day was at the SCG and it got 35,000 people, mostly Saints supporters. When the Dragons are doing well Kogarah gets full but as mentioned, Sydney is key - St George as a club has been around over 100 years while the Illawarra steelers have folded and were bought out by WIN. The power lies in St George/Sydney in terms of fans and money, the Illawarra should continue to be embraced as a nursery and as a way to expand their fan base but it makes more sense for the core of the business to be Sydbey based.
7~10000 sounds about right with a couple closer to 5000. I'm not sure about WIN but from watching the games on TV, I have a hunch it was somewhat more. Like 10~15000 with a couple around 8~9000.
 

Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
You can read the crowd figures online, it was 7-10,000 for Kogarah and Wollongong and one Kogarah home game on ANZAC day was at the SCG and it got 35,000 people, mostly Saints supporters. When the Dragons are doing well Kogarah gets full but as mentioned, Sydney is key - St George as a club has been around over 100 years while the Illawarra steelers have folded and were bought out by WIN. The power lies in St George/Sydney in terms of fans and money, the Illawarra should continue to be embraced as a nursery and as a way to expand their fan base but it makes more sense for the core of the business to be Sydbey based.
And do you think Illawarra will be satisfied with this? To act as a junior nursery but not have any or only 1 or 2 games a year? They won't. The juniors will be split between Canberra, Wests Tigers, Canterbury and one would have to think the Sharkies would benefit most. As a matter of fact, Dragons pulling out of the Illawarra might ensure the ultimate nightmare, the long-term viability of the Sharkies.

There are hardline supporters in both camps who haven't been able to reconcile the merger. St. George fans see Illawarra as a ball and chain dragging us down. Hardline Illawarra fans see it as a takeover rather than a merger. It's a tough situation but even JoDragon got over it and so should we.
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
And do you think Illawarra will be satisfied with this? To act as a junior nursery but not have any or only 1 or 2 games a year? They won't. The juniors will be split between Canberra, Wests Tigers, Canterbury and one would have to think the Sharkies would benefit most. As a matter of fact, Dragons pulling out of the Illawarra might ensure the ultimate nightmare, the long-term viability of the Sharkies.

There are hardline supporters in both camps who haven't been able to reconcile the merger. St. George fans see Illawarra as a ball and chain dragging us down. Hardline Illawarra fans see it as a takeover rather than a merger. It's a tough situation but even JoDragon got over it and so should we.
More accurate to say, there are a lot of St. George fans who see Illawarra as a ball and chain dragging us down and there are "a few" Illawarra fans who see it as a takeover, not a merger.
 

Eric

Moderator
Sydney is ultra tribal but the Dragons already have plenty of support outside of Sydney which should be embraced, the Illawarra region should also continue to be an important part of the club but they should be primarily based in Sydney
How do you make it an important part of the club when the club is based in Sydney?
 

GCRV

SGI NSW Cup
We were discussing this a few weeks ago. There was a huge media outcry because they don't want the Dragons to be successful but dropping the Illawarra part of the name is something I support 200%.
This should be a no-brainer. Even the fanatical Illawarra supporters would get over it pretty quickly. And I think there aren't many of them.
 

GCRV

SGI NSW Cup
Yes but this is where their brand comes into it, the Dragons are more popular than most Sydney clubs, there might be 1 or 2 who rival that. That's why I think they should use its brand to grow that dominance in Sydney while at the same time focussing on the South Coast, which is a smaller region and wouldn't take as much effort to sustain.

The Dragons have fans all over Sydney and they should keep using it to their advantage.
I'd guess outside of the local area, Woolongong and Kogarah, Dragons are the biggest brand in the NRL. I mean Broncos have more supporters but in Brisbane, St George have been until now the 2nd most popular. From now I guess 3rd.
 
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Saints94

SGI Junior League
And do you think Illawarra will be satisfied with this? To act as a junior nursery but not have any or only 1 or 2 games a year? They won't. The juniors will be split between Canberra, Wests Tigers, Canterbury and one would have to think the Sharkies would benefit most. As a matter of fact, Dragons pulling out of the Illawarra might ensure the ultimate nightmare, the long-term viability of the Sharkies.

There are hardline supporters in both camps who haven't been able to reconcile the merger. St. George fans see Illawarra as a ball and chain dragging us down. Hardline Illawarra fans see it as a takeover rather than a merger. It's a tough situation but even JoDragon got over it and so should we.
I don't think the Dragons should stop playing games in the Illawarra, there should still be 6 games played at Wollongong every year, I just think the club should be based in Sydney. I think it's critical the Dragons have a presence in the Illawarra through various programs, player engagement etc for the reasons you mentioned, you dont want to lose the Illawarra. I'm saying they would be better off being based in Sydney because most opportunities are there for reasons I mentioned.
 

Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
I don't think the Dragons should stop playing games in the Illawarra, there should still be 6 games played at Wollongong every year, I just think the club should be based in Sydney. I think it's critical the Dragons have a presence in the Illawarra through various programs, player engagement etc for the reasons you mentioned, you dont want to lose the Illawarra. I'm saying they would be better off being based in Sydney because most opportunities are there for reasons I mentioned.
It's an interesting perspective. One more thing I think you are overlooking is that Illawarra is cheaper and most players want to live there rather than in Sydney.
 

Eric

Moderator
I don't think the Dragons should stop playing games in the Illawarra, there should still be 6 games played at Wollongong every year, I just think the club should be based in Sydney. I think it's critical the Dragons have a presence in the Illawarra through various programs, player engagement etc for the reasons you mentioned, you dont want to lose the Illawarra. I'm saying they would be better off being based in Sydney because most opportunities are there for reasons I mentioned.
It's a good opinion but I just think the Illawarra region's population is going to grow much more. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it. The head office has done many strange things. In fact, ever since the merger apart from the 3 years of Bennett, it has been a picture of incompetence. But I think they have done due diligence, or hired some competent organisation to, in moving club operations to Illawarra.

As Chris M said above, if the Shonkies are gone and Dragons have that entire area, from ................... well now Souffs are based in Homebush, how far do you want to go? Lets be conservative and say the entire area from the Cooks River along the Illawarra Line train to Gerringong. If Dragons have that entire area, maybe it would be better to be based in Sydney. But it won't be for a few generations that people in those traditional Souffs and Shonkies areas support St George.

So we may as well accept that the club training and admin is going to be based in Illawarra until long after we are all gone. But what they can do right now is drop the "Illawarra" part of the name.
 

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
It's a good opinion but I just think the Illawarra region's population is going to grow much more. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it. The head office has done many strange things. In fact, ever since the merger apart from the 3 years of Bennett, it has been a picture of incompetence. But I think they have done due diligence, or hired some competent organisation to, in moving club operations to Illawarra.

As Chris M said above, if the Shonkies are gone and Dragons have that entire area, from ................... well now Souffs are based in Homebush, how far do you want to go? Lets be conservative and say the entire area from the Cooks River along the Illawarra Line train to Gerringong. If Dragons have that entire area, maybe it would be better to be based in Sydney. But it won't be for a few generations that people in those traditional Souffs and Shonkies areas support St George.

So we may as well accept that the club training and admin is going to be based in Illawarra until long after we are all gone. But what they can do right now is drop the "Illawarra" part of the name.
No matter what, the CHPC is a positive development. The same thing hasn't done the Bullgrubs much good but has done wonders for Penriff.
 

Eric

Moderator
No matter what, the CHPC is a positive development. The same thing hasn't done the Bullgrubs much good but has done wonders for Penriff.
Don't get too far ahead of yourself. It looks like it is going to go ahead but construction hasn't started yet.
 
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