Dragons v Dogs Round 1

[RedVHeartbeat]

There are 6 on the bench but only allowed to use 4.

I read he was in the four. Weren't the other two, LKT, Feagai reserves?

 

[jodragon40]

Let him build into it. If we're relying on our new inexperienced halfback to do everything from the start then we're screwed. Others can also run the ball or be running threats. His long kicking kept us in the game.

Can't afford to wait mate, he had a good running game when I saw him play. Flanagan hasn't run the ball for 3 yrs. We need him to step up in that area.

 

[Dragon David]

Very physical game

Great defensive effort overall

Our younger forwards were awesome.

Our lack of speed out wide hindered our ability to score.

Our halves lack creativity so early in the season.

Atkinson is not a 7. He is a running 6.

Kyle lacks the creativity to organise an attack at NRL level.

The club needs to give LKT the opportunity to play 7.

Am unsure whether LKT’s defence has improved.

Val Holmes hasn’t recovered from injury or is not fit.

Suli is Suli. Average NRL centre.

Feagai looks sharper.

Our backline needs a revamp asap.

Reed is the answer. If he handles the physicality of Reserve grade after 4-6 rounds and our attack remains pedestrian, he must be promoted.

Galvin outplayed our halves and is both young and small. See no reason as to why Reed can’t play.

Agree with all you said No Surrender but with Galvin, he sure did outplay our halves but he is not small as such. He is 193 centimeters tall or 6 feet and 4 inches and weighs in at 85kg. Weight wise he is small but height wise he isn't so if you meant his weight being small, then I agree.

 

[jodragon40]

A lot of talk about lack of a running game from Atkinson. For me this was down to field position. Although we matched them for completed sets and kicked very well for position, more often than not they had tackles in our half and we were kicking from close to halfway (apart from the end when the game opened up a bit). I just don't think that we'll see our halves trying to run the ball from around our own 30 metre line. That just wouldn't have been the strategy. When Galvin looked dangerous it was because his forwards had put him close to our goal line so he was allowed to roam. We really need to reserve judgement on Atkinson until he gets some decent ball deep into opposition territory. Until then last tackle kicking was his only real option. I'm not going into the mad scramble for a field goal - far too much to unpack there.

Overall I thought we played very well within our squad limitations. We need more strike for sure but we all knew that. KK is part of that and Flanagan is talking about another 2 or 3 big players to come for 2027. Things will also look different when Reed plays but those comparing him to Galvin physically are way off the mark. Galvin is 193cm and has filled out a lot. No comparison. Reed will benefit from plenty of Cup football this season and hopefully he gets some NRL time towards the end of the season and then another pre-season into him before becoming the main man in 2027. Let's not bust these juniors because we're impatient for success.

I thought the Dogs targeted Tu with their kicks and physically tried to rough him up, especially Kikau with that awful deliberate high shot. But I think he passed the test.

Guler won't be used for runs. Do not expect to see any running stats of note from him this season. He has very obviously been told to put his body on the line in defence and that's what he's doing. It's about taking those hits to protect the others. They will give the ball to faster and better attacking forwards to run it.

I usually can't come on the forums after a loss - hurts too much and too much negativity for me. but I'm actually not feeling so bad after watching the huge effort on Sunday. And I genuinely believe we are a chance against Melbourne at the Gong.

I hope people dont misunderstood me in relation to Atkinson. Its extremely tough for him to pull on the 7 for the big red V. There are always expectations whenever anyone does.

Atkinson has had limited minutes in the last 2 seasons and it wasn't as a 7 it was usually a 6. I watched him one day in the Ressies a few seasons ago and his running game stood out.

Flanagan even mentioned that one of his main strengths was his running game and he was going to take advantage of having a running 7 this season.

I thought the kid went very well considering his limited opportunities over the last 2 seasons and playing as a game manager. His kicking game was very good.

What I am saying, we win more games than we lose if this kid is making runs and taking on the line. Im hopeful he gets his confidence back sooner rather than later.

When one of your halves are consistently taking on the line this directly affects the defensive structures of the opposition. We were pedestrian in attack because the Dogs compressed their defence.

I hope and believe that Atkinson can make the transition from 6 to 7, I acknowledge its will take time but we need him to do it. Just my views

 

[Dragon David]

Dunno have to ask Flanagan. For mine Liddle is our best rake and must start, but Cook came here as co captain so Lidds was undeservedly shoved down the pecking order to be his deputy. By playing favorites because he is one of his boys, he has messed round Liddle. Thankfully Lidds has been extended and should be back to start next season.

Liddle will come back this season RVH not next season! Maybe in the next game against the Storm??

 

[Dave03]

Can't afford to wait mate, he had a good running game when I saw him play. Flanagan hasn't run the ball for 3 yrs. We need him to step up in that area.

I get it, we all want to win but just like we're being patient with Reed, the same approach needs to be taken for Atko. We've got plenty of ball runners in the team but there's only one good kicker & it's him. We shouldn't put past issues on his shoulders, he shouldn't carry that burden imo. Running is natural for him, be patient and it will come in due time.

Guys like Luch, Guler, Kerr & Sele need to run for more yardage to help out with field position. That might in turn allow better opportunities for Atko to run the ball, I doubt he nor any half will run the ball in their own half often.

 

[Illusion]

This is the Dragon's right there ......

 

[Dave03]

This is the Dragon's right there ......

View attachment 967

Bash brothers as one of the callers said. It was a soft penalty too, considering all the dog shots from dogs players were let go. These two, Stewart & Egan are all built for modern day footy. Great nucleus for our pack, just need a few players with a bit more leg speed & power. Another Sele type player would compliment them great in the future imo. Hopefully Halangahu is the man, maybe he can improve on his leg speed by training with the couchies this off-season.

 

[jodragon40]

I get it, we all want to win but just like we're being patient with Reed, the same approach needs to be taken for Atko. We've got plenty of ball runners in the team but there's only one good kicker & it's him. We shouldn't put past issues on his shoulders, he shouldn't carry that burden imo. Running is natural for him, be patient and it will come in due time.

Guys like Luch, Guler, Kerr & Sele need to run for more yardage to help out with field position. That might in turn allow better opportunities for Atko to run the ball, I doubt he nor any half will run the ball in their own half often.

Dave we have not had a ball running halve for many years now. You misunderstood what I am saying.

I'll clarify, you MUST have a 6 or 7 that is going to run with the ball in hand. MUST, if you are going to be a competitive top 8 team, better if both are willing to challenge the line.

If you have one or both willing to take on the line then you can have more variations in your attacking structures. Our attacking structures yesterday were predictable and cost us.

I acknowledge we have other players who can run the ball but that's not the point, your playmakers need to have that ability in their skillset. Flanagan doesn't have a running game, is not going to develop one so it is incumbent on Atkinson to take up that role.

 

[Eric]

I read he was in the four. Weren't the other two, LKT, Feagai reserves?

The bench was

• Toby C
• Stewart
• Lawrie
• LKT
• Feagai
• Kerr

But only allowed to use 4.

 

[RedV01]

My verdict of this post: shite.

No, I should rephrase: utter, utter shite

In addition to being absolutely kissed on the dick by the officials, the Dogs had 54% possession, and a whopping 72% of field position. Tackled in the opposition 20 stats were 42-9. Yet we still scored the same amount of tries as the Dogs, and Gutherson was quite essential to one of them.

Thank you sir.

Firstly, thanks for your homo erotic metaphor. I support you doing what you do but I can assure you, that's not what I do so in future, could I ask you not to use those kind of metaphors when replying to me? Thanks in advance.

TBH, or brutally honest, I thought the Grubs got the rub of the green with the ref but the shepherd and the last penalty were the only really bad ones. Tu was falling and that's why he was hit high. A penalty only is the right call. But I know when one of our guys does it, he will be get binned. The other 2 could've gone either way.

54% of possession, 72% of field position and 42-9 tackled in the 20 in their favour isn't an indication the team isn't playing well? Thank you for your sharp insight. It is definitely not shite. But I'm going to respectfully disagree. One can disagree but remain respectful.

Mr Clint Gutherson is one of those who can't be criticised but I'm going to do it anyway. Actually no, I think he's good. Just for the modern game, need the fullback to be faster. I'd like to see him get a run on the halves. Well, I would have but now there is no one else to play fullback. Unless Val was to play fullback.

 

[Mug Fan]

Agree ... but what would have happened if Liddle was on the bench yesterday? Would he have played Feagai for Suli on the HIA and not used Lids?

You play Mat or the 6 man bench is pointless.
Shuffling a forward out was a disaster every time we did it last year.

We have to hold that spot every week till say the 60min mark.

Another option is start with Lids when he is fit and have a four man middle rotation with Couchys Hame Kerr.
Cook gives Hamish and Lids a breather and you leave the 4th spot to injury or forward.

Did anyone notice how the other 3 sides used subs, did they have an injury.

 

[TheRev]

Worst game think I have seen from Val.

Alarm bells went off for me when they switched him to the right.. been left all his life, thats muscle memory thats pretty hard to undo.. different if there was some god ctr that needed the spot on the left.. but Suli about the same either side.

If he has another soft tissue injury now already after finally making it back from his last one... we could be in some strife, hes really our 1 guy who isnt a bash and barger.. who has some class and pace.. if this is going to be one of those seasons he missed half of the year.. yuck... rly not confident in Fale, and Feagai is Feagai, Heidke is injured, Buchanan I spose could come in.. its just hard cause we dont have many points in us.. we cant have weak links (i.e. Sloans) in the side to win games.. thats why we competed to the end yesterday... we cant defend anyone gifting a try or 2 to the opposition through poor defense.

 

[RandomDragon]

You play Mat or the 6 man bench is pointless.
Shuffling a forward out was a disaster every time we did it last year.

We have to hold that spot every week till say the 60min mark.

Another option is start with Lids when he is fit and have a four man middle rotation with Couchys Hame Kerr.
Cook gives Hamish and Lids a breather and you leave the 4th spot to injury or forward.

Did anyone notice how the other 3 sides used subs, did they have an injury.

Both knights and cows had backline injuries so same situation to us with an outside back playing

 

[Dragon David]

Why is it that we have to wait for Atkinson to get a bit more game time to acquit himself better in the #7 jersey? How much more time will he need? We are now virtually in the same position as in many years ago after we had Ben Hornby as our specialist halfback up to the end of 2012 and in 2013 we had Nathan Fien, in 2014 we had Michael Witt for a bit followed by Benji Marshall, 2015 - Benji Marshall, 2016 - Benji Marshall (Benji had to play #7 when his best position was #6 but Gareth Widdop had that number and he was great as the 5/8th). 2017 we had Josh McCrone and then from 2018-2024 we had Ben Hunt who was signed up as our specialist half back and in 2025 - Kyle Flanagan, 2026 - Daniel Atkinson. We did have a few fill ins like Bud Sullivan for a game or three.

What I am saying is that looking at our halves going back to 2012, we have had just Ben Hornby, Benji Marshall and Ben Hunt as the best half backs - picking Marshall because he did show class but halfback was not his best position.

So Following the game on Sunday afternoon against the Dogs, we had Atkinson in the #7 and he will be given time to become "better" in that position when we know he is better in the 5/8th position. Therefore, we MUST either use Reed soon to play #7 and Atkinson moves to #6. We have no hope in getting a specialist half back for a year before Reed is older and stronger. Kyle Flanagan needs to go to Ressies for the remaining time of his contract.

 

[dragonheart]

This is the Dragon's right there ......

View attachment 967

Love it, what passion with Hamish and Dylan as well. This is why we didnt need JDB anymore they also have the passion for the club and cover his position. The new Dragon era has begun

 

[RufusRex]

Both knights and cows had backline injuries so same situation to us with an outside back playing

Not exactly ...

Knights lost Sharpe but their bench had Sandon Smith as hooker cover so they brought him on for the halves instead ... Their back cover was Fletcher Hunt who was not used. Smith was always going to rotate on with Crossland having a break but the change meant Crossland played 80

Cowboys lost Drinkwater but didnt use their outside back on the bench (Robert Derby) they pushed a forward (McIntyre) to centre and dropped Purdue to fullback. They only used forwards from their bench not the hooker (Luke) or Back (Derby).

 

[Mug Fan]

This is the Dragon's right there ......

View attachment 967

 

[jodragon40]

You play Mat or the 6 man bench is pointless.
Shuffling a forward out was a disaster every time we did it last year.

We have to hold that spot every week till say the 60min mark.

Another option is start with Lids when he is fit and have a four man middle rotation with Couchys Hame Kerr.
Cook gives Hamish and Lids a breather and you leave the 4th spot to injury or forward.

Did anyone notice how the other 3 sides used subs, did they have an injury.

I did in the Cowboys game. So when Drinkwater came off with his rib cartridge injury he was replaced by a 2nd rower O' Donell.

I would have thought they would have replaced him with a back that they had on their 6 man bench, Derby, but they didn't. So the Cows only used their original 14 - 17 who are all forwards.

Whilst the Knights did carry a back in their 14 - 17, Smith who replaced Sharpe

 

[Dave03]

Dave we have not had a ball running halve for many years now. You misunderstood what I am saying.

I'll clarify, you MUST have a 6 or 7 that is going to run with the ball in hand. MUST, if you are going to be a competitive top 8 team, better if both are willing to challenge the line.

If you have one or both willing to take on the line then you can have more variations in your attacking structures. Our attacking structures yesterday were predictable and cost us.

I acknowledge we have other players who can run the ball but that's not the point, your playmakers need to have that ability in their skillset. Flanagan doesn't have a running game, is not going to develop one so it is incumbent on Atkinson to take up that role.

Like I said, to expect it from Atko this early on in his halfback role is unrealistic on top of kicking, organising & defending demands of his role. Again, burdening the past issue onto him is not going to do him any good. I think it's unfair to expect him to do everything straight away. I'd say we were in our half for most of the game, how many times have you seen halves run the ball inside their own half?

He also then needs to get in position to kick the ball on tackle 5 because he's our main kicker. It's a hell of a lot manage this early on, the smarter play is to develop his kicking game & gain confidence in that area.