Round 2 v South Sydney Rabbitohs - Sat 3pm

[Chris M]

I have zero respect for Hunt, great heads up footy player that I watched repeatedly prove he couldnt manage or direct a team for shit, was attorcious for moral on the field and then until Shane came along and held him accountable would sit up there in pressers next to his mate Hook acting like it was everyone elses fault and he had no idea why we were losing. So to answer that I couldnt give a shit what Ben says because I think by the end of it it was a pissing match in the media between him and Flanno of little jabs, he wanted out for ages and got what he wanted because of it.

You've had a weird thing against Kyle from day dot and to some degree I get it, yes I still think hes a first grader, ultimately I think will end up as a good defensive lock/14 and thats about it, nothing special. My issue is that it was very clear coming into this year what we were going to get from our halves, they're both pretty non creative defensive players and we figured Illias's job was to play his defensive role and kick. Thats it. We knew that and we went and recruited a shitload of experience in our backs, lead by Gutho to play that role instead. Literally 80% of our attack is Flanno/Illias getting it to Gutho or second man out then playing out the back of it to our edges instead of them doing it, but thats what we got him for. So when fans immediately jump down the throats of the new halves combo as the sole reason we lost, when theres glaring issues accross the park in the middle, and effort areas and lack of direction, I'm looking to the guys we paid a shitload of money to do that role instead. Yes Illias couldve/shouldve stood up and made a play to win the game, but where were the guys we paid big money to do that?

Hunt is a absolute tool but noted you typed all of that without answering the questions.
I've been hard on Kyle from exactly the game in the Origin period last year. Before the game Flanno was interviewed and was asked about Kyle taking on more responsibility and Flanno immediately said Jesse Marshke will be doing all the playmaking. Then Marschke carried the team to a win while Kyle had a shocker. It was then I understood the situation perfectly. That is,

• Kyle was signed only because he is the coaches son.
• Kyle would not be in first grade if he wasn't the coaches son.
• I don't know this but I suspect Hunt's outburst was reflecting grumbling within the team about Kyle.

I'm very angry about it. Not with Flanno. He thinks Kyle is the best 5/8 in the competition. Someone from above needs to intervene!

 

[Illusion]

Benji has his, if they are good enough they are old enough, Tigers humming.

Just said the same in the other forum ....... Pleasure to watch, speed right across the park ....... Even Bird is reacting faster ........

 

[Eric]

Benji has his, if they are good enough they are old enough, Tigers humming.

Hunt is a absolute tool but noted you typed all of that without answering the questions.
I've been hard on Kyle from exactly the game in the Origin period last year. Before the game Flanno was interviewed and was asked about Kyle taking on more responsibility and Flanno immediately said Jesse Marshke will be doing all the playmaking. Then Marschke carried the team to a win while Kyle had a shocker. It was then I understood the situation perfectly. That is,

• Kyle was signed only because he is the coaches son.
• Kyle would not be in first grade if he wasn't the coaches son.
• I don't know this but I suspect Hunt's outburst was reflecting grumbling within the team about Kyle.

I'm very angry about it. Not with Flanno. He thinks Kyle is the best 5/8 in the competition. Someone from above needs to intervene!

I was as angry as anyone about the game yesterday but it's round 2. Much better they play like this now rather than round 20. Give it a bit of time. Though I agree there needs to be changes. Egan needs to come in for starters. LKT can't come in yet because he's not top 30. I think LPT still has more filling out to do but Latu won't get much bigger than he is now. Not saying he should debut now but I think he shouldn't be far away. And Finau as well even though Sloan and CT were among our best yesterday.

 

[Wild383]

Hunt is a absolute tool but noted you typed all of that without answering the questions.
I've been hard on Kyle from exactly the game in the Origin period last year. Before the game Flanno was interviewed and was asked about Kyle taking on more responsibility and Flanno immediately said Jesse Marshke will be doing all the playmaking. Then Marschke carried the team to a win while Kyle had a shocker. It was then I understood the situation perfectly. That is,

• Kyle was signed only because he is the coaches son.
• Kyle would not be in first grade if he wasn't the coaches son.
• I don't know this but I suspect Hunt's outburst was reflecting grumbling within the team about Kyle.

I'm very angry about it. Not with Flanno. He thinks Kyle is the best 5/8 in the competition. Someone from above needs to intervene!

I literally answered all your questions and gave you a detailed response as to my answer? In short: no I don't care what Hunt said and I don't think is has any weight. Yes I think he's a first grader, and yes thats regardless of Shane being his dad. Whether he was signed because of his dad is a complete stab in the dark, f*ck all half options, the Amone drama, does Hook sign him probably not but then Hunt stays, does another coach that took over who knows, maybe.

Do you disagree with the points I made in my previous response? Why does Val get a pass when he should've commanded a field goal attempt, or the poor kicking performance? Hell we saw it last year from Lomax demanding the ball for feild goals when we needed it. Why does Cookie get a pass for a bog average game and lack of leadership and direction in key moments as captain? Does the game change at all with LKT there instead of Flanno/Illias? Even if he has a blinder it doesn't fix 2 rubbish mistakes leading to even more rubbish soft tries, or a lack of effort to stop the field goal. We have big issues that need addressing and I don't believe changing a halves combo after 2 rounds helps whatsoever, if anything makes it more difficult this early n.

Edit to add - he most definitely does not think his son is the best 5/8 in the comp he basically called him an average non creative half that 'just does his job' in one of his recent interviews lol.

 

[Eric]

Just said the same in the other forum ....... Pleasure to watch, speed right across the park ....... Even Bird is reacting faster ........

I've never seen Bird tackle this well. He went up and put a hit on that 118kg Parra prop.

 

[Chris M]

I literally answered all your questions and gave you a detailed response as to my answer? In short: no I don't care what Hunt said and I don't think is has any weight. Yes I think he's a first grader, and yes thats regardless of Shane being his dad. Whether he was signed because of his dad is a complete stab in the dark, f*ck all half options, the Amone drama, does Hook sign him probably not but then Hunt stays, does another coach that took over who knows, maybe.

As far as I remember, the problem with Amone came up after Kyle was signed. You kind of answered. Obviously he's a first grader because he's in first grade. It's a question of if he would be if his dad wasn't the coach.
So you don't care what Hunt says. I don't either. The question was whether his comment was reflecting what's going on within the team. I think it was but just a guess.
Kyle wouldn't of been signed and wasn't signed before his dad was appointed head coach.
Can't be sure about whether he would still be in the team but 95% sure LKT would have a top 30 contract and be playing 5/8.

Do you disagree with the points I made in my previous response? Why does Val get a pass when he should've commanded a field goal attempt, or the poor kicking performance?

I can't believe you brought up the kicking. Illias is struggling with his kicking. Is there anyone else who can help him out? Anyone at all?

Hell we saw it last year from Lomax demanding the ball for feild goals when we needed it. Why does Cookie get a pass for a bog average game and lack of leadership and direction in key moments as captain? Does the game change at all with LKT there instead of Flanno/Illias?

Almost certainly, judging by the way he played in reserve grade, YES. Would have laid on a few tries and a few more line breaks.

Even if he has a blinder it doesn't fix 2 rubbish mistakes leading to even more rubbish soft tries, or a lack of effort to stop the field goal. We have big issues that need addressing and I don't believe changing a halves combo after 2 rounds helps whatsoever, if anything makes it more difficult this early n.

No, it's the fact the team was in a position where those mistakes mattered is the problem. And they were in the situation due to the halves much more than any other players.

Edit to add - he most definitely does not think his son is the best 5/8 in the comp he basically called him an average non creative half that 'just does his job' in one of his recent interviews lol.

"Just does his job"? What is his job?

Anyway, it's debatable but he might have been better than Illias. Thing is, there is no one else for Illias. Kyle is holding back a gun.

 

[Eric]

Positives from the games:

• Couchmans form.
• Stewart going from strength to strength. Too much to ask him to dominate this year but from next year, Couchman mark lll.
• Guthos form.
• It's only round 2.
• Form of the young blokes in the NSW Cup team.
• Halangahu re-signed.
• JDBs form still good. Might be one more year in him yet.

Anything else?

 

[Ryan]

Positives from the games:

• Couchmans form.
• Stewart going from strength to strength. Too much to ask him to dominate this year but from next year, Couchman mark lll.
• Guthos form.
• It's only round 2.
• Form of the young blokes in the NSW Cup team.
• Halangahu re-signed.
• JDBs form still good. Might be one more year in him yet.

Anything else?

I think you covered everything.

 

[Dave03]

Complacent in key moments. Defence is still poor, especially Illias & Su'a on our goal line giving away another try. Winning is a habit & losing is a habit. We're in the latter.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

Positives from the games:

• Couchmans form.
• Stewart going from strength to strength. Too much to ask him to dominate this year but from next year, Couchman mark lll.
• Guthos form.
• It's only round 2.
• Form of the young blokes in the NSW Cup team.
• Halangahu re-signed.
• JDBs form still good. Might be one more year in him yet.

Anything else?

Sloan was better than i thought, his first 2 hit ups on tackle 2 he went backwards both times, it looks to me like he runs to upright and slows down when he gets to the defence, which is easy to be pushed back, he needs to run a bit lower and not let the defenders get an easy shot on him, he improved as the game went on, scored 2 good try's as well, moment of truth against Storm, they will sort him out if he isnt up to it..

 

[TheRev]

Sloan was better than i thought, his first 2 hit ups on tackle 2 he went backwards both times, it looks to me like he runs to upright and slows down when he gets to the defence, which is easy to be pushed back

This has always been my main issue with Sloan, there is a way he runs at the defence that seems to disable him from breaking tackles (unless he fends) and enables the defence to easily get under him and just create a slow play the ball at best... I figured there must not be a way to fix it or they would have by done it years ago... running at full speed is 1 thing, but its the running through a tackle part.

That said I think his positives outweigh any negatives.. I havent really seen any of our wingers really being tested defensively, we are letting tries in closer to the middle.. but I think hes earnt his opportunity, and he should get fitter hopefully each game.

 

[jodragon40]

Complacent in key moments. Defence is still poor, especially Illias & Su'a on our goal line giving away another try. Winning is a habit & losing is a habit. We're in the latter.

So I was right when I pointed out our weakest link in our defensive structures was and still is the Illias/Su'a edge. I may even consider coming out of retirement.

 

[jodragon40]

This has always been my main issue with Sloan, there is a way he runs at the defence that seems to disable him from breaking tackles (unless he fends) and enables the defence to easily get under him and just create a slow play the ball at best... I figured there must not be a way to fix it or they would have by done it years ago... running at full speed is 1 thing, but its the running through a tackle part.

That said I think his positives outweigh any negatives.. I havent really seen any of our wingers really being tested defensively, we are letting tries in closer to the middle.. but I think hes earnt his opportunity, and he should get fitter hopefully each game.

Sloan what an enigma. Ball in hand at speed he glides over the park and believe it or not avg 3 tackle busts per game, hes not a linebreaker, that is not his strength. The downside is until he reaches that speed hes an easy target defensively and as you correctly point out is still unable to get to ground quickly enough. I noted a couple of times reduced his speed as he came to the defensive line returning kicks. He has improved his catching under the high ball.

His defence well if picked against the Storm we will soon find out if that has improved, he will be against Coates. Their kick chase and wingers are amongst the best in the comp. You can bet your house they won't be kicking to Tuipulotu.

Let us hope Storm vs Panthers is as tough as it gets and there is a hangover for our game the following week. There is hope.

 

[RedVHeartbeat]

But is Liddle our best hooker and Cook should be his deputy?

Liddle more elusive on younger legs, a more effective and prolific defender. In a word yes .

 

[jodragon40]

Complacent in key moments. Defence is still poor, especially Illias & Su'a on our goal line giving away another try. Winning is a habit & losing is a habit. We're in the latter.

It most certainly is, you have a winning culture or a losing culture within a team and club. Be interesting to see the players response to losing that game against the Rabbits when we come up against the premiership favourites.

 

[RedVHeartbeat]

The downside is until he reaches that speed hes an easy target defensively

He is throwing himself at defenses these days, no backing down, no longer being rag dolled. As always give him a cm and he is away in a shot, as you say he glides over the ground. There is a noticeable improvement in his defensive intent, tho still bit reluctant to go round the legs? I am enjoying also his infield forays as he remains one of few in this club that can make something from nothing.

 

[RedV01]

I don't often watch Shonkies games but I watched about half of their game vs Cowboys. I think he was on as a ball playing forward but based on that, if Shonkies QLD back up 5/8 is better than our young reserve grade QLD 5/8, I'm Darren Lockyer. That's also good news. Just need a coach who will f*cking select him.

 

[RedVHeartbeat]

you have a winning culture or a losing culture within a team and club.

Synonymous with this once proud club during 7 years of having the nameless one running this team. We now have a new #7 and we need to be patient with him, specially his coach, who admitted putting his foot in his mouth over criticizing Ilias in the presser.

 

[RedVHeartbeat]

I don't often watch Shonkies games but I watched about half of their game vs Cowboys. I think he was on as a ball playing forward but based on that, if Shonkies QLD back up 5/8 is better than our young reserve grade QLD 5/8, I'm Darren Lockyer. That's also good news. Just need a coach who will f*cking select him.

You talking bout Atkinson.

 

[RedVHeartbeat]

jeez he made some nice tackle busts/line breaks out of hard yardage.

Yes, crabs across field a lot too, sometimes making zero progress, ala Dugan. Is crabbing counted in the RM stats.