Recruitment and Retention for 2025

[Eric]

Got a feeling Gutho will come to us. Unsure what position he'd play but you could make a case for either fullback, ctr or 5/8.

God I hope not. Don't we have enough veterans on the books already? I don't think he's an NRL standard fullback anymore. That's why the Eels want to ship him off. I didn't watch a lot pf Parra last year but from what I saw, they are in big trouble with Gutho on 950k for next year. If he stays, I bet he doesn't see out the year in first grade.

He's a fullback version of Lawrie. All determination and effort but lacks the talent of the best fullbacks or even Sloan. The end of NRL career usually comes very sudden for these type. I feel the end has come for him. Ryles feels it too.

 

[Eric]

https://archive.md/NO9TE

He's on 950k next year, we'd pay most of it to play fb. We're also in discussions with Addo Carr's management...interesting.

1. Gutho
2. CT
3. Holmes
4. Suli
5. JAC

This would've been a gun backline 5 years ago lol but not bad now either.

Take us from the slowest back 5 in the history of the NRL to the oldest.

Having said that, I'm in favour of signing JAC but not Gutho.

 

[TheRev]

The other thing about Gutho is he covers centre (and 5/8 if needed), I've been freaking out a bit about how little injury coverage we had in our backline positions... he could easily end up at ctr if Val or Suli get injured and Sloane back into #1.. any number of possibilities.

 

[Chris M]

The other thing about Gutho is he covers centre (and 5/8 if needed), I've been freaking out a bit about how little injury coverage we had in our backline positions... he could easily end up at ctr if Val or Suli get injured and Sloane back into #1.. any number of possibilities.

He might go ok at 5/8. Though can he make the transition so late in his career?

I think he goes ok but I see Eric's point. Need to STOP recruiting so many players whose best days are well behind them. Occasionally it's not bad. But Dragons have been doing it way too much for way too long.

 

[Dave03]

We have no one with a commanding voice or elite leadership in our 17. He brings that plus winning experience & offers versatility. Eels don't really need him with Moses in the spine. Ben isn't a leader nor does he have a commanding voice. A 2 year contract is fine for him.

Val can cover fullback but he wasn't playing that position at Cowboys & played limited time at fullback for the Sharks. Gutho has been a legitimate fullback who can guide Sloan.

Sometimes you need to look at what players can offer that isn't just match related, what they offer on the training track & off-field too. Gutho ticks those boxes too.

 

[Dave03]

Interesting we're in discussions for JAC, I'm a bit hesitant since imo he wasn't upfront & tried to bullshit the dogs about the drugs test. Happy to back Sloan for a wing spot or someone like a S. Finau.

 

[RedV01]

Interesting we're in discussions for JAC, I'm a bit hesitant since imo he wasn't upfront & tried to bullshit the dogs about the drugs test. Happy to back Sloan for a wing spot or someone like a S. Finau.

I thought Flanno was on record saying Sloan has next year to pull his socks up or next year is his last at the Dragons. He didn't say it that bluntly but that's what he meant.

Plus I hate for the Dragons to sign anyone the media is pushing them to sign. The way I see it, if he was a good fit, the media wouldn't push it.

 

[Runner]

Gutho has been an excellent player but he is on the downhill run. Since Parra lost Talagi why do they now want to let go of him? Too old, too slow and lots of injuries. We need speed to be a threat out wide and at the back.

 

[Dave03]

I thought Flanno was on record saying Sloan has next year to pull his socks up or next year is his last at the Dragons. He didn't say it that bluntly but that's what he meant.

Plus I hate for the Dragons to sign anyone the media is pushing them to sign. The way I see it, if he was a good fit, the media wouldn't push it.

He did say that, he's had enough time in 1st grade. He has to show something or he's out. Too many dragons fans are caught up with the media, they're just baiting us because our fans respond. Ditto with Tigers. I wouldn't worry about the media, unless Flanno is pushing it through the fox journos.

 

[TheRev]

Interesting we're in discussions for JAC, I'm a bit hesitant since imo he wasn't upfront & tried to bullshit the dogs about the drugs test. Happy to back Sloan for a wing spot or someone like a S. Finau.

Yah JAC im not as fussed about, like I really want Lodge as a priority... but Gutho I think will be massive for us.. JAC is a distant 3rd for me also... but would be a bonus.. he would be a very clear upgrade over CTui or Feagai.. and we havent been able to land our other targets (we tried).

Pretty sure SFinau will be a lock for right wing regardless, Webb mentioned it a while back and I just think hes the best candidate.. has really improved his work-rate and PCM this year... its just his injuries holding him back this year. Poachable from Nov 1 though, not sure how to price him.. he might wait to prove his worth and hold negotiations till next season.

I dont think Sloan can transition to wing though, certainly not for 2025 anyway over CTui, Feagai, Allan, Ramsey.. I think his strengths are what he does in backline movements and support-play, fullback things.. conversely his weaknesses are the tough carries..staying in-field when tackled close to the in-goal or touchline, aerial collisions & tackling 100kg blokes at pace before they put a ball down.. all these things he struggles with.. so its a big ask to re-train him.. I think itll be good for him to drop back to ressies and try to get bigger, better and hungrier.. we will need him plenty during the season I reckon thru injuries to Gutho or others.

Gutho has been an excellent player but he is on the downhill run. Since Parra lost Talagi why do they now want to let go of him? Too old, too slow and lots of injuries. We need speed to be a threat out wide and at the back.

Gutho is a gamble but I think Flanno wants guys like him and cook in this squad.. tenacious competitors, no more soft tries being let in that really drops us out of games.. and more leadership, rally the troops, Hunt is not that man..... I rly hope Parra regret letting him go, he does free up a lot of cash though.. rumour they want to go for Papaenhausen but who knows..

I think Gutho was also aligned with Brad Arthur, so thats been a sticking point...

Roosters are the other possible landing spot for Gutho, but I dont see them offering more than 1 year.. so that seems pointless.. I have no idea how we would spend our salary cap if these players dont end up here.. words is JAC is almost a done thing, but work to go yet on Gutho.

 

[Ryan]

Yah JAC im not as fussed about, like I really want Lodge as a priority... but Gutho I think will be massive for us.. JAC is a distant 3rd for me also... but would be a bonus.. he would be a very clear upgrade over CTui or Feagai.. and we havent been able to land our other targets (we tried).

I think Lodge is unwanted everywhere he goes for reasons other than form and ability. I don't get why you wouldn't want JAC but want Gutho. JAC is younger and 10x better in his position (wing) than Gutho (fullback). Gutho might have utility value but it seems specialist utility players aren't really wanted these days. Unless they go well at hooker and then have utility value on top of that.

Pretty sure SFinau will be a lock for right wing regardless, Webb mentioned it a while back and I just think hes the best candidate.. has really improved his work-rate and PCM this year... its just his injuries holding him back this year. Poachable from Nov 1 though, not sure how to price him.. he might wait to prove his worth and hold negotiations till next season.

That's good. Good player but still doesn't address our speed issue. JAC, Holmes and Sloan in the back 5 would fix that. LKT is a big 5/8 but is hardly slow as well.

I dont think Sloan can transition to wing though, certainly not for 2025 anyway over CTui, Feagai, Allan, Ramsey.. I think his strengths are what he does in backline movements and support-play, fullback things.. conversely his weaknesses are the tough carries..staying in-field when tackled close to the in-goal or touchline, aerial collisions & tackling 100kg blokes at pace before they put a ball down.. all these things he struggles with.. so its a big ask to re-train him.. I think itll be good for him to drop back to ressies and try to get bigger, better and hungrier.. we will need him plenty during the season I reckon thru injuries to Gutho or others.

Agree. It would expose his main weakness. Inability to bust through tackles or even get on his front for a quick play the ball.

Gutho is a gamble but I think Flanno wants guys like him and cook in this squad.. tenacious competitors, no more soft tries being let in that really drops us out of games.. and more leadership, rally the troops, Hunt is not that man..... I rly hope Parra regret letting him go, he does free up a lot of cash though.. rumour they want to go for Papaenhausen but who knows..

I think Gutho was also aligned with Brad Arthur, so thats been a sticking point...

That's the main problem with Gutho as far as I can see. We would have JDB, Hunt, Holmes, Cook and Gutho in the 17. Even if he winds back the clock for 2 years, which is doubtful, it would only be setting us for another rebuild for 2026 and 2027. Remembering Luciano, Molo, Liddle, Suli, Su'A have also been around for a while.

Roosters are the other possible landing spot for Gutho, but I dont see them offering more than 1 year.. so that seems pointless.. I have no idea how we would spend our salary cap if these players dont end up here.. words is JAC is almost a done thing, but work to go yet on Gutho.

Spend it on locking up the Couchmans, LPT, Halagahu, Latu, Stewart and others long term.

 

[Ryan]

Daily Telegraph says:

The arrival of Penrith youngster Isaiah Iongi means that Gutherson’s days as a fullback at Parramatta are numbered.

So why didn't the Dragons look to poach Isaiah Iongi if they would now entertain signing Gutho? He was only signed very late in the season.

No indication the Dragons are even remotely interested. Just a few journos who are good friends with Gutho and want him to get a big payday. This gem is from the same article by Michael Carayannis, David Riccio and Brent Read:

Gutherson, like any footballer, wants some certainty in his life. He recently turned 30 and his next contract may be the final big one of his career.

Nice dream but Gutho has his 900k next year and that is his last big pay day as player.

 

[Runner]

Gutho is a gamble but I think Flanno wants guys like him and cook in this squad.. tenacious competitors, no more soft tries being let in that really drops us out of games.. and more leadership, rally the troops, Hunt is not that man..... I rly hope Parra regret letting him go, he does free up a lot of cash though.. rumour they want to go for Papaenhausen but who knows..

I think Gutho was also aligned with Brad Arthur, so thats been a sticking point...

Roosters are the other possible landing spot for Gutho, but I dont see them offering more than 1 year.. so that seems pointless.. I have no idea how we would spend our salary cap if these players dont end up here.. words is JAC is almost a done thing, but work to go yet on Gutho.

I know Gutho has some positives but on balance I just think that the negatives I mentioned regarding lack of speed and aging body (injuries) outweigh the positives. Maybe acceptable if it was for 2025 only but he will want 3 years I would imagine.

 

[jodragon40]

All I will say is what I have been saying since joining this forum. You can have the Australian backline but if your engine room is not consistently making the advantage line it won't matter.

 

[Chris M]

I know Gutho has some positives but on balance I just think that the negatives I mentioned regarding lack of speed and aging body (injuries) outweigh the positives. Maybe acceptable if it was for 2025 only but he will want 3 years I would imagine.

On one year with Parra subsidising the move, it would be ok. But as a utility. He's lost a step in speed, his body is worse for wear. That's why Parra want to get rid of him.

 

[Chris M]

Daily Telegraph says:

So why didn't the Dragons look to poach Isaiah Iongi if they would now entertain signing Gutho? He was only signed very late in the season.

No indication the Dragons are even remotely interested. Just a few journos who are good friends with Gutho and want him to get a big payday. This gem is from the same article by Michael Carayannis, David Riccio and Brent Read:

Nice dream but Gutho has his 900k next year and that is his last big pay day as player.

I read he is on an astonishing 950k next year.

 

[Red T]

Saint Gutho ! With Parra chipping in a large part of his salary. I would say he will play fullback with Sloane to the wing.

if RCG signed with Gold Coast, what happens to Fifita ? They can’t have both can they ? Fifita to the Rorters ? I think Dragons will try and sign Lodge, and I do not think Hunt will leave but Cook will be the new captain. Hunt is just not a good talker and he needs to concentrate on his game.

 

[GCRV]

Saint Gutho ! With Parra chipping in a large part of his salary. I would say he will play fullback with Sloane to the wing.

if RCG signed with Gold Coast, what happens to Fifita ? They can’t have both can they ? Fifita to the Rorters ? I think Dragons will try and sign Lodge, and I do not think Hunt will leave but Cook will be the new captain. Hunt is just not a good talker and he needs to concentrate on his game.

I think Fifita burned his bridges with the Roosters.

 

[RedVictory]

Sloane to the wing.

Why on earth does this keep getting brought up? If Sloan isn’t at fullback he isn’t in the 13 at all, simple as that.

 

[Edward]

Why on earth does this keep getting brought up? If Sloan isn’t at fullback he isn’t in the 13 at all, simple as that.

I thought if he put on several more kgs, tackled much better and partnered with a good, game managing 1/2 he might be a good 5/8. But I can't see any way he could be a good winger.