Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
Look at the size of the Parra pack compared to ours.
  • Reagan Campbell-Gillard vs Francis Molo: Similar. I'd think within 2 or 3 kgs of each other.
  • Junior Paulo vs Blake Lawrie: Paulo has about 20kg on him.
  • Shaun Lane vs Jack Bird: Lane has at least 10kg on him.
  • Isaiah Papali’i vs Jack Gosiewski: Papali’i has at least 10kg on him.
  • Nathan Brown vs Tariq Sims: Sims probably has 2~5kgs on him.
Not a problem at the start of the season when I thought smaller forwards might excel with the faster game. Then I saw the first round and wasn't overly impressed with the go-forward for a large part of the game against pretty average competition.

Then I saw the second game. Our smaller forwards did get the better of them in the second half but the first 20~30min was painful to watch. Penrith forwards were treating Bird and Lawrie like Dufty from last season. The side was under constant pressure because Penrith were dominating field position.

Then we come to last game when the whole game was like the first 20min against Penrith.

Ok coach, so you made a mistake. These smaller forwards are not bad. No criticism of them but we see from the fist 3 games, especially the 2nd and 3rd, we need bigger forwards starting and then bring the smaller players on.

So the coach doubles down on still a smaller starting pack! What's going on?

Even the best forwards are going get gang tackles and forced back from time to time but when we fire Lawrie followed by Bird followed by Gosiewski at them in the first 10min, we are looking at a gain of about 10m between them if lucky!
And Sims is better on an edge than in the middle as well.

Why is Jack de Belin on the bench? I'm sure the coaching staff had a plan but it's starting to come as across as just plain stupid but they are continuing with because they don't want to admit they were wrong.
 

Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
This is a very big game and we need our big game players on the field if McCullogh is fit enough he starts, so Mbye back to the bench. If fit enough Woods starts, Lawrie off the bench, if fit enough Burgess on the bench Ford removed from the 17, Kerr also gone. My starting pack if all fit would be Woods, Molo, McCullogh, Debelin, Sims and Bird, bench Mbye, Lawrie, Burgess and Gosie
Apart from Bird and de Belin the wrong way around (Bird second row, de Belin lock) I like that pack and bench a lot. Excellent balance in my opinion. Woods and Molo aren't going to get through so much work but have McCullough, de Belin, Bird and Sims to do that. de Belin has impact and a good work rate. So coach has him on the bench! How does that work?

Lawrie and Gosiewski will get through a lot of work to make up for Burgess' big charges but lack of stamina.
 
Look at the size of the Parra pack compared to ours.
  • Reagan Campbell-Gillard vs Francis Molo: Similar. I'd think within 2 or 3 kgs of each other.
  • Junior Paulo vs Blake Lawrie: Paulo has about 20kg on him.
  • Shaun Lane vs Jack Bird: Lane has at least 10kg on him.
  • Isaiah Papali’i vs Jack Gosiewski: Papali’i has at least 10kg on him.
  • Nathan Brown vs Tariq Sims: Sims probably has 2~5kgs on him.
Not a problem at the start of the season when I thought smaller forwards might excel with the faster game. Then I saw the first round and wasn't overly impressed with the go-forward for a large part of the game against pretty average competition.

Then I saw the second game. Our smaller forwards did get the better of them in the second half but the first 20~30min was painful to watch. Penrith forwards were treating Bird and Lawrie like Dufty from last season. The side was under constant pressure because Penrith were dominating field position.

Then we come to last game when the whole game was like the first 20min against Penrith.

Ok coach, so you made a mistake. These smaller forwards are not bad. No criticism of them but we see from the fist 3 games, especially the 2nd and 3rd, we need bigger forwards starting and then bring the smaller players on.

So the coach doubles down on still a smaller starting pack! What's going on?

Even the best forwards are going get gang tackles and forced back from time to time but when we fire Lawrie followed by Bird followed by Gosiewski at them in the first 10min, we are looking at a gain of about 10m between them if lucky!
There's always been a belief with some coaches that you try and nullify a bigger pack by using a more mobile pack to tire them out quicker. The issue here is if you don't get your fair possession of ball then the plan quickly unravels. I very rarely did not use my big men to start a game if they were available.
 

Eric

Staff
There's always been a belief with some coaches that you try and nullify a bigger pack by using a more mobile pack to tire them out quicker. The issue here is if you don't get your fair possession of ball then the plan quickly unravels. I very rarely did not use my big men to start a game if they were available.
One could argue it's a smart strategy that has proved deeply flawed in practice the last 2 games. Arguably the last 3.
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
There's always been a belief with some coaches that you try and nullify a bigger pack by using a more mobile pack to tire them out quicker. The issue here is if you don't get your fair possession of ball then the plan quickly unravels. I very rarely did not use my big men to start a game if they were available.
One could argue it's a smart strategy that has proved deeply flawed in practice the last 2 games. Arguably the last 3.
It seems no one has any idea what's going but the coach must have a plan. If a lightweight pack fails for the 3rd time in a row, it's time to turn on the coach but until then, let's see what happens. One win from the first 4 rounds won't quite leave the season in tatters but it won't be looking good.
 
One could argue it's a smart strategy that has proved deeply flawed in practice the last 2 games. Arguably the last 3.
Personally in my day the club president would quickly make a beeline for you and questioning you why is the biggest players in the team not starting . Don't forget this was before unlimited changes and when you had only 4 reserves 2 fresh and 2 you picked from your reserve grade who had already played. Once replaced that was it for the match so you never did not start your best 13 when they were available. My belief is that games are won by the forwards the backs decide by how many.
 
It seems no one has any idea what's going but the coach must have a plan. If a lightweight pack fails for the 3rd time in a row, it's time to turn on the coach but until then, let's see what happens. One win from the first 4 rounds won't quite leave the season in tatters but it won't be looking good.
Without knowing exactly I would suggest that our biggest players just aren't match fit hence off the bench. I hope I'm wrong but we could cop another hiding if the starting 13 isn't changed before kick off
 
Apart from Bird and de Belin the wrong way around (Bird second row, de Belin lock) I like that pack and bench a lot. Excellent balance in my opinion. Woods and Molo aren't going to get through so much work but have McCullough, de Belin, Bird and Sims to do that. de Belin has impact and a good work rate. So coach has him on the bench! How does that work?

Lawrie and Gosiewski will get through a lot of work to make up for Burgess' big charges but lack of stamina.
In my day you put your best defensive forward at lock . He was usually more mobile than the rest of the engine room. No way would I swap Bird and Debelin positions in my humble view. In fact Debelin would be selected 1st in my team.
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
Without knowing exactly I would suggest that our biggest players just aren't match fit hence off the bench. I hope I'm wrong but we could cop another hiding if the starting 13 isn't changed before kick off
There isn't really any reason for them not to be match fit. At least not any less than Parra's heavyweights. Unless they weren't trained properly in the off season. Woods only missed one week, Sims has been back since round 1 but is being played in the middle for 30 min rather than an edge for 80..... Which correct me if I'm wrong, would further diminish the ability to go with big players like Burgess on the bench.
 

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
In my day you put your best defensive forward at lock . He was usually more mobile than the rest of the engine room. No way would I swap Bird and Debelin positions in my humble view. In fact Debelin would be selected 1st in my team.
De Belin would also be my first picked. Hunt and De Belin are proving to be the best players (again) but in Sullivan, we have a capable backup for Hunt. For De Belin we have a second rower playing out of position in order for De Belin to be on the bench...... Go figure!
 

Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
In my day you put your best defensive forward at lock . He was usually more mobile than the rest of the engine room. No way would I swap Bird and Debelin positions in my humble view. In fact Debelin would be selected 1st in my team.
Sorry, I meant the opposite. I guess you mistakenly stated:
My starting pack if all fit would be Woods, Molo, McCullogh, Debelin, Sims and Bird
I like that. In fact, I like it a lot and believe it's infinitely better than what they have selected this weekend. But it suggests without explicitly stating Bird is lock and de Belin in second row.
 

Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
Personally in my day the club president would quickly make a beeline for you and questioning you why is the biggest players in the team not starting . Don't forget this was before unlimited changes and when you had only 4 reserves 2 fresh and 2 you picked from your reserve grade who had already played. Once replaced that was it for the match so you never did not start your best 13 when they were available. My belief is that games are won by the forwards the backs decide by how many.
According to the first 3 games this season, your belief is as true now as it was when you were a coach.
 

Morgan

SGI NSW Cup
There isn't really any reason for them not to be match fit. At least not any less than Parra's heavyweights. Unless they weren't trained properly in the off season. Woods only missed one week, Sims has been back since round 1 but is being played in the middle for 30 min rather than an edge for 80..... Which correct me if I'm wrong, would further diminish the ability to go with big players like Burgess on the bench.
Burgess could be lacking match fitness. He has only played about 20min in the NRL in a few years. Did he play in the NSW Cup last week? No excuse at all for Woods and de Belin not to be match fit. No indication they aren't.
 

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
Look at the size of the Parra pack compared to ours.
  • Reagan Campbell-Gillard vs Francis Molo: Similar. I'd think within 2 or 3 kgs of each other.
  • Junior Paulo vs Blake Lawrie: Paulo has about 20kg on him.
  • Shaun Lane vs Jack Bird: Lane has at least 10kg on him.
  • Isaiah Papali’i vs Jack Gosiewski: Papali’i has at least 10kg on him.
  • Nathan Brown vs Tariq Sims: Sims probably has 2~5kgs on him.
Not a problem at the start of the season when I thought smaller forwards might excel with the faster game. Then I saw the first round and wasn't overly impressed with the go-forward for a large part of the game against pretty average competition.

Then I saw the second game. Our smaller forwards did get the better of them in the second half but the first 20~30min was painful to watch. Penrith forwards were treating Bird and Lawrie like Dufty from last season. The side was under constant pressure because Penrith were dominating field position.

Then we come to last game when the whole game was like the first 20min against Penrith.

Ok coach, so you made a mistake. These smaller forwards are not bad. No criticism of them but we see from the fist 3 games, especially the 2nd and 3rd, we need bigger forwards starting and then bring the smaller players on.

So the coach doubles down on still a smaller starting pack! What's going on?

Even the best forwards are going get gang tackles and forced back from time to time but when we fire Lawrie followed by Bird followed by Gosiewski at them in the first 10min, we are looking at a gain of about 10m between them if lucky!
At least the St George bench is almost as heavy as the Parra bench. Would be pretty much the same except we'll have Mbye on the bench and McCullough starting. So the pack will be even lighter than the team named.
 

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
There's always been a belief with some coaches that you try and nullify a bigger pack by using a more mobile pack to tire them out quicker. The issue here is if you don't get your fair possession of ball then the plan quickly unravels. I very rarely did not use my big men to start a game if they were available.
Not a bad idea but if the other team is constantly on the attack due to dominating field position, can put in attacking kicks and force mistakes or get repeat sets. It makes the belief you outlIned untenable.
 
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Eric

Staff
Without knowing exactly I would suggest that our biggest players just aren't match fit hence off the bench. I hope I'm wrong but we could cop another hiding if the starting 13 isn't changed before kick off
I fear you are right. I'm of the firm belief the starting line up is going to be quite different from the team named. At least I hope that's the case. If the starting teams remain as are listed, I think Parramatta might stream-roll right over the top of out little pack.
 
Not a bad idea but if the other team is constantly on the attack due to dominating field position, can put in attacking kicks and force mistakes or get repeat sets. It makes the belief you outlIned untenable.
In my day the bigger packs the better good defence caused not only handovers but kicking from around your 25 yard line and no further up the field than the 10 yard line prior to the half way. It does work believe me especially in wet weather football
 
I fear you are right. I'm of the firm belief the starting line up is going to be quite different from the team named. At least I hope that's the case. If the starting teams remain as are listed, I think Parramatta might stream-roll right over the top of out little pack.
They will
 

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
In my day the bigger packs the better good defence caused not only handovers but kicking from around your 25 yard line and no further up the field than the 10 yard line prior to the half way. It does work believe me especially in wet weather football
Yeah, I agree a bigger pack, within limits of course, is better. Especially in the wet. Shonkies proved it last week. We had Jackson Ford coming on and they had Andrew Fifita coming on.

I like Jackson Ford. I rate him but he needs to be complimented by a big, Burgess like player rather than your man, Gosiewski. I also like and rate Gosiewski but he needs to be complimented by a big forward as well, not Bird or Mbye!!
 
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