jodragon40
Staff
It is its the old coach in me
St George Illawarra in 2023
- Thread starter Eric
- Start date
Chris M
SGI NSW Cup
This is the kind of thing that needs to be referenced as the season progresses. An way to pin point specific things the team needs to improve on and how that can be done.
Morgan
SGI NSW Cup
Slightly different from the usual "run hard" mantra
.Which isn't meant to be a criticism of anyone just a reminder there is a more technical side to the game when one reaches the level of the NRL.
Eric
Staff
NRL 2022: Are St George Illawarra Dragons banking on more muscle?
Long-suffering Dragons fans haven't yet been enlightened by the club or the Dragons’ coach Anthony Griffin as to the strategy behind the acquisition program in the off-season, which some pundits have somewhat inaccurately referred to as Dad’s army.
Presumably members of the squad are also unaware as to the plans of the coach but the gains and losses for the Dragons are well documented. Although the strategy behind them is a matter of speculation.
St George Illawarra 2022 gains
Jaydn Su’A (Rabbitohs), Francis Molo (Cowboys), George Burgess (Wigan), Moses Mbye (Wests Tigers), Moses Suli (Sea Eagles), Aaron Woods (Sharks), Jack Gosiewski (Sea Eagles), Tautau Moga (Rabbitohs).
St George Illawarra 2022 losses
Cameron McInnes (Sharks), Matt Dufty (Bulldogs), Jordan Pereira (Broncos), Adam Clune (Knights), Paul Vaughan (Bulldogs), Kaide Ellis (Wigan), Brayden Wiliame (French rugby), Corey Norman (retirement), Gerard Beale, Billy Brittain, Hayden Lomax (all released).
Some of the new acquisitions are obviously regarded as a part of the Dragons’ long-term future: Jaydn Su’A, Suli and Molo are signed until the end of 2024.
It appears that Jaydn Su’A has been targeted as an 80-minute edge player and the Dragons have tried but at this stage failed to move Tariq Sims on with 2022 still remaining on his contract. I am assuming at this stage that the Dragons may be looking at having 80-minute second rowers and a lock, with presumably Jack Bird, Sims and Jack De Belin competing for the remaining spots after Su’A.
Moses Suli, little used and unwanted at the Sea Eagles, is apparently wanted at the Dragons despite long-term contracts for Zac Lomax, as well as Mat and Max Feagai.
Presumably Mat and Max Feagai will miss out on the centre spot but may vie for the wing spot with Cody Ramsay, and with Suli’s 109-kilogram bulk and experience preferred to assist Mikaele Ravalawa’s strong runs out of the Dragons’ half of the field.
Francis Molo (aged 27 and 112 kilograms) is a strong addition, but was primarily a low-minute player at the Cowboys. With ageing props Aaron Woods (aged 30 and 111 kilograms) and George Burgess (aged 29 and 120 kilograms) also acquired and also likely low-minute players, it may be that the Dragons are contemplating using props in a short-minute rotation.
Other acquisitions appear more short-term. Moses Mbye has a two-year contract and it is assumed he will be a bench utility. Jack Gosiewski (Sea Eagles) and Tautau Moga (Rabbitohs) have only one-year contracts and are perhaps not favoured in the top 17 unless there are injuries.
Moga (aged 27 and 109 kilograms) is a centre in much the same mould as Suli (aged 23 and 109 kilograms) and could provide additional weight in the back line, presumably on the wing if coach Griffin decides to go that way.
In summary then, it would seem that the Dragons may be targeting size in the back line and front row with 80-minute back-row endurance players and a bench utility in Mbye, with the balance of the bench probably props.
If this turns out to be the case then the Dragons will have a very strong reserve-grade team with players like Mat and Max Feagai waiting on injuries for their chance in first grade.
Seems we aren't the only one's talking about firepower, running metres, big forwards and etc. I was also surprised about signing Suli when the Feagai's have been penciled in for the NRL for some time and given they signed long-term contracts. But now I trust Griffin has a plan. If Suli screws up or gets lazy, we have ready made replacements ready to go.
I'm also confused about the reference to Woods being a short minute player. I thought one of his greatest strengths, if not his greatest, was the ability to play long minutes without much of a drop in intensity.
29 (Burgess) and 30 (Woods) is really quite young to be branded "aging" these days.
Also as far as I'm aware Sims and the club mutually agreed he would see out his final season some months ago.
Finally, I think it's just wrong to say that Suli will partner with Rava. Lomax when fit and not suspended have proven themselves, when playing on the same side, a potent weapon in attack and defence.
RedV01
SGI NSW Cup
Definitely Lomax and Ravalawa on the same side.
Chris M
SGI NSW Cup
I wonder if Su'a is a capable middle player. I don't think Sims would be much good in the middle. His strength is the timing off his edge running. Maybe Hook is planning to play Sims and Bird on the edges.
jodragon40
Staff
Agree before injuries and suspensions they were building up quite a combination
Eric
Staff
They were definitely a shining light in the early part of last season. After the first 5 or 6 rounds, did they play another game together?
Eric
Staff
Not much news about St George Illawarra this pre-season. I guess it's a good thing.
jodragon40
Staff
HOOPS: Dragons star recruit fast becoming the NRL’s next genuine enforcer
HOOPS: Dragons star recruit fast becoming the NRL’s next genuine enforcer
www.foxsports.com.au
Eric
Staff
Just a bit on Cam McInnes at the Shonkies. Ennis is a really painful commentator. The way he has a few favorites he just gushes over a few of his personal favourites. Clint Gutherson should wear a chastity belt when Ennis is around. McInes is another of his favourites. This article was talking about the Shonkies and about how they play to fit Braily in at hooker, Finucane at lock and McInnes at hooker/lock and Ennis had the following to say.
“With Cameron the game has gone down that path a little bit with the smaller lock forward at times compared to a couple of years ago where you had guys like Gallen and those bigger bodies in that No.13 position,” Ennis said.
“Now it has sort of transformed a little bit where you have guys like Cameron Murray and Victor Radley and Nathan Brown at Parramatta that are such vital links between the halves.
“It will be interesting to see how they use McInnes there. He was really effective for the Dragons when he played there.” However Ennis wouldn’t rule out McInnes spending time at dummyhalf or even coming on off the bench after the brutal exchanges in the opening 20 minutes.
I beg to differ. He gave 100% and was tireless when playing lock for us but his impact was really very limited. He didn't bend the line let along break it. Got smashed often and didn't have an offload in tackles or a pass before the line. Unless he has learned a few new tricks, I don't think he's an NRL standard lock.
“With Cameron the game has gone down that path a little bit with the smaller lock forward at times compared to a couple of years ago where you had guys like Gallen and those bigger bodies in that No.13 position,” Ennis said.
“Now it has sort of transformed a little bit where you have guys like Cameron Murray and Victor Radley and Nathan Brown at Parramatta that are such vital links between the halves.
“It will be interesting to see how they use McInnes there. He was really effective for the Dragons when he played there.” However Ennis wouldn’t rule out McInnes spending time at dummyhalf or even coming on off the bench after the brutal exchanges in the opening 20 minutes.
I beg to differ. He gave 100% and was tireless when playing lock for us but his impact was really very limited. He didn't bend the line let along break it. Got smashed often and didn't have an offload in tackles or a pass before the line. Unless he has learned a few new tricks, I don't think he's an NRL standard lock.
Eric
Staff
Five teams who will contend for the wooden spoon this season
Which team will finish last in 2022?
5. St George Illawarra Dragons
St George Illawarra Dragons may be the most debatable team on this list, but there is no question that if things go pear-shaped, they will be in contention to finish at the bottom of the table.The Red V, under the somewhat unproven coaching of Anthony Griffin have made a very strange recruitment run over the off-season. A number of experienced forwards who appear to be over the hill - George Burgess and Aaron Woods as the headline acts - as well as the signing of Moses Mbye, Jack Gosiewski, Moses Suli and Francis Molo. Only Molo may excite Dragons fans given his Origin pedigree, as well as the size and strength he will bring to the Dragons' forward pack in 2022.
But with several young guns - led by Jayden Sullivan and Tyrell Sloan - there is genuine excitement if they click. The question remains though around their starting 17, whether Griffin can coach, and whether the forwards will be able to lay the platform for the kids to do their thing.
St George Illawarra seem like a team who will score 24 points a game and still lose by 20, with the pieces they have acquired unlikely to help fix defensive issues from the last 12 months.
An intriguing team, and an argument could be made for the Dragons finishing anywhere between seventh and last.
Keep underestimating us please. Though in all fairness, this is more optimistic than many in the media. Or from their perspective, maybe writing us off is optimistic.
Once again, Sullivan gets the mention ahead of Amone. I think we all agree Amone is going to get first shot at 5/8 but someone mentioned that even though Amone is a better 5/8, there is the possibility Sullivan will partner better with Hunt. This may be what all these media pundits are thinking. I don't believe it personally but where there's smoke there's fire.
RedV01
SGI NSW Cup
I was thinking Woods and Burgess are over the hill as well until I found out they were only 30 and 29. Bromwich for example is going to be 34 when he starts his next contract next year.
Morgan
SGI NSW Cup
Let's be honest, if Amone, Sloan and Sullivan flame out, it will probably be a long year. I don't think they will but they haven't been tested at NRL level so..... I guess we have replacements ready if that happens. Mbye at 5/8, Ramsey fullback, Feagai on the wing. So even if in the unlikely event they do flame out, we won't be wooden spoon material but it'll be a long season nonetheless.
Though you're right it's far from a pessimistic analysis. If the young guns do this and, a favourite of this forum, if the forwards don't lay a platform up front, if Griffin can coach (we already know he can). That's a lot that has to go wrong for us to have a bad season.
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Chris M
SGI NSW Cup
When you put it that way, it really isn't very pessimistic.
Based on waht we have seen so far, I can't see any possibility of Sloan and Amone flaming out. I can only see the possibility of them not being as good as we hope/think/expect.
GCRV
SGI NSW Cup
I wonder if Mbye was signed for exactly that prospect rather than as a utility and backup hooker.
GCRV
SGI NSW Cup
I guess they are choosing Sullivan over Amone at 5/8 out of ignorance, not any 'deep analysis' about how one or the other will partner Hunt.
Eric
Staff
2022 NRL season preview – St George Illawarra Dragons
The Dragons could finish anywhere on this year’s ladder.
The St George Illawarra Dragons, coming off a very disappointing finish to 2021, will look to make up for it in 2022 with exciting youth and a slew of experienced signings.2021 season
It's tough to spin the Dragons 2021 season as anything other than a let down. They finished 11th so they weren't in the bottom few, but they weren't a great deal better either.They struggled at both ends of the field, scoring only 19.5 points per game while conceding almost 26. That may not look bad when averaged but they conceded 616 points. That makes for terrible reading.
The Dragons won four of their five opening games, including wins over eventual top four finishers the Parramatta Eels and Manly Sea Eagles. They'd then only win four more games all season.
The Matt Dufty situation because comical for everyone other than the fans who were forced to endure such an embarrassing saga drag on. The big upside was the unearthing of Tyrell Sloan who looks a megastar in the making.
That's a pretty fair assessment, IMO. Dufty embarrassed himself. In attack he was excellent but was severely lacking in every other part of a fullbacks game. Griffin probably could have worked with him but it seems correctly concluded Sloan had far more upside so it's better to spend the time, effort and money on developing him rather than Dufty. Nothing personal and Dufty is being disingenuous suggesting anything other than that.
Recruitment Impact
The Dragons have signed........ strangelyGeorge Burgess was forced into retirement due to injury whilst playing for Wigan. He still looks the part but there are huge questions as to his effectiveness in a sharper, much quicker ruck.
Aaron Woods has multiple Origins and Kangaroo jumpers to his name but became known for throwing his arms up as defenders ran past him in 2021. His ruck defence under the new rules became a running joke for Sharks fans.
How did the club allow their captain and back-to-back player of the year walk to their rivals?
Moses Mbye looks a clever signing but looks a big outlay for a utility. Moses Suli has had his issues but is a bona-fide beast out wide and well worth the risk.
Jaydn Su'a arrives at the club as a run on player both in a grand final and representing Queensland in Origin. His signing shapes as an absolute steal.
This looks patently ridiculous to me.
True about Burgess. Is he still a good player? Who knows but he is apparently on minimal money so it's not a big loss even if he's no longer NRL standard.
Never noticed about Woods' defence but I didn't pay attention to Shonkies games. As long as he knows not to do that anymore, should be fine. Seems like an easily fixable problem. He isn't going to be a superstar and barge over for multiple tries or whatever but he will (hopefully) play for a long time, keep going forward and provide a few offloads.
Great decision by Griffin. IMO he is a good hooker but not great and not worth the money the Shonkies are throwing at him. At lock, I'm sure he'll try hard and give 100% for the Shonkies but no. I'd much prefer JDB, Fuimanon or Bird to play lock.
Agree about Mbye. Why was he signed? Must be backup hooker first and foremost and the a general utility after that.
I hope that's the case for Su'A.
Eric
Staff
Dragons Talking Points
Aging Forward Pack: I alluded to it in recruitment but I'm not 100 per cent sure where Woods and Burgess fit into a pack in 2022. Woods delivered some impressive numbers at the Sharks in 2021 but there are literal highlight reels to Benny Hill music about some of his misses.Hopefully for those wearing the Red V, he has spent the off-season working on that. Burgess was a weapon at Souths but was forced to hang up his boots while playing for Wigan.
Half for Hunt: The Dragons made a tough, but ultimately correct decision in moving Corey Norman on. His time had come and gone. The big question now though is who partners Ben Hunt in the halves.
Jayden Sullivan or Talatau Amone? Hunt did his very best to carry the side in 2021 but can't be asked to do the same this year. Whichever way the Dragons brains trust go, they have to provide support for their number seven. Amone for mine.
Hard to disagree with any of that.
Hook In?: I literally can't remember the last time a Dragons coach had any kind of job security, at least in the public eye. Wayne Bennett, perhaps? Dragons powerbrokers and fans were split for the entirety of Paul McGregor's reign, and the same happened in year one under Anthony Griffin.
The Dragons have shown their faith and the fans probably need to accept and support. I imagine it would be enjoyable for Dragons fans to enjoy some certainty for once.
Well, I guess that means the author has problems with his or her memory. McGregor and Price were extended despite near total, abject failure.
Dragons Key Player
Ben HuntHe was nothing short of Goliath in 2021. He was massive and completely held a stuttering Dragons side together.
He was arguably the competition's form player across the opening three weeks of the competition. Unfortunately an injury would stunt him and derail the Dragons. Hunt had possibly his second best season in the top grade, after the grand final season of course, and finally shut down doubts over his ablity.
As the senior halves partner, a leader and the clubs most marketable player, he is arguably the most important player in the competition in terms of his team's fortunes not nicknamed Turbo.
He was good last year. Shows what a decent coach can do with players. Personally I never doubted him as a halfback when Baldy McGregor had him playing hooker and McInnes lock.
Eric
Staff
Dragons Breakout star
Tyrell SloanWe've only had a small sample size but my word the results thus far have been impressive.
Six tries, two try assists and 13 tackle breaks in just five games of NRL football makes for exciting reading.
With a full NRL off-season under his belt and a brand new, upgraded contract to his name, Sloan has the number one jersey from Round 1.
He has all the talent to fill it for a long, long time. One of the game's real excitement machines. I just hope Dragons fans temper their expectations and remember he is still a rookie, albeit a ridiculously talented one.
This guys star just keeps rising but personally I'm not so sure. I think Amone is going to be huge this year. It'll take something special from Sloane to unseat Amone as our "breakout star".
Dragons Fixtures to watch
Round 3: St George Illawarra vs Sharks: The local derby is always a brilliant occasion. Ladder position means very little heading into a clash between the two southern Sydney sides. Throw in the McInnes move and then you have a recipe for a spicy clash.Both games in 2021 were won by the Sharks, who will enter this clash as favourites. There's nothing the Dragons hate more than being referred to as little brother by their rivals. They will want to win this one.
Round 7: St George Illawarra vs Roosters: Arguably the marquee game outside of the finals and Origin is the Anzac Day fixture. Regardless of ladder position, form, result etc this is an occasion every player looks forward to. With Covid restrictions easing, there's every chance we'll once again have a sell-out crowd supporting both teams and the most important day on the calendar.
Round 12: St George Illawarra vs Bulldogs: On paper this may seem like a random game but these are the games the Dragons need to win to contend for finals footy. The Dogs have improved dramatically and are expected to be challengers for a return to the top eight. If the Dragons are serious contenders, they'll need to do the job at Belmore in front of a hostile crowd. This will be fun to watch, and carries super importance for the Dragons finals hopes.
All fixtures are to watch for us. In Round 7 I'm looking forward to seeing how our guys can take advantage of Keary and Walker in the front line. One (very) poor defender can be hidden. 2 should be taken advantage of.
Dragons Final Prediction
I struggled with this final ranking. The Dragons are streets ahead of the two sides below them (the Cowboys and Tigers) but a fair way out of finals contention. I'd guess they'll somewhere in between.Zac Lomax and Tyrell Sloan have plenty of points in them, but they're going to need to given the defensive make up of this side.
Bird at lock is a target, Woods and Burgess have to adapt to a faster game at advanced ages, while Josh McGuire spends more time suspended than he does on the park.
Ben Hunt needs help creating. Amore or Sullivan need to hit the ground running while the Dragons pack has to prove me, among many many doubters, wrong.
I just can't see them being able to score enough points, consistently (there will be days they rack up scores) to worry the better sides.
14th
JDB will be lock to start the game unless unavailable. Even then, it may be McGuire or Fuimaono.
If Griffin can squeeze another 2 good years out Woods, Burgess, McGuire, McCullough, we'll be very competitive. Top 8 assured if the forwards can at least hold their own.