Top 30 for 2023

Chris M

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
Eric said:

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

Will Griffin survive?​

The Dragons board and senior executive have put their own heads on the chopping block by not making the tough call with Griffin during the off-season. We saw last year when Wests Tigers gave Michael Maguire a stay of execution over the summer how it ultimately blew up in their faces. When they ended up sacking him mid-season it was too late to save them, with the club finishing with the wooden spoon. On the surface the Dragons appear to be in a very similar predicament, and if it turns to mud some very senior people are entitled to be put under the microscope by the fans.

Will Lomax realise his true potential?​

It’s become a bit of running gag around the game how everyone always goes back to Freddy Fittler spruiking Zac Lomax as “the gifted one”. The fact is Lomax is now 23 and it’s about time he delivered on that enormous potential, or otherwise he could wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened. At his best Lomax is State of Origin standard, but he needs to get the mug tactics out of his game first; like that silly incident last season when he tried to get under Tyson Frizell’s skin and it backfired on him badly. What we’d all love to see is Lomax come back in 2023 and cut the crap out of his game, just concentrate on being the best footballer he can be. You know what Freddy said is right, but only Lomax can deliver on the promise.

Massive spinal issues​

So much will still depend on Ben Hunt. The veteran halfback had a fabulous year in 2022 and he’ll need to do that next season for the Dragons to have any hope of challenging to top teams. Even more pressure goes on his shoulders with Cody Ramsey’s illness, Talatau Amone subjected to the no-fault stood-down policy and Jayden Sullivan suffering another hamstring injury. With either Ramsey or Tyrell Sloan at fullback, a fit Sullivan (or Moses Mbye) at five-eighth, and Jacob Liddle the dummy half, on paper it doesn’t look like they have the big guns in the most crucial positions to match the genuine heavyweights just yet. Still, this is a side that has a stack of players who could easily come out and shock us all by going to the next level in the next year or two. So if the Dragons can sort out their off-field issues they could be one still end up being one of the real surprise packets in 2023. Though it could just as easily go pear-shaped if the unrest lingers.
This is also untrue. The biggest issue the Dragons have is the engine room. Only Lawrie is a good prop. The rest and the hooker are barely NRL standard. Also Su'a is one backrower. Need another.
Click to expand...
Is it just that no decent players want to play under Griffin or is he really satisfied with what he has?
 
RedV01

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
Eric said:

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

Will Lomax realise his true potential?​

It’s become a bit of running gag around the game how everyone always goes back to Freddy Fittler spruiking Zac Lomax as “the gifted one”. The fact is Lomax is now 23 and it’s about time he delivered on that enormous potential, or otherwise he could wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened. At his best Lomax is State of Origin standard, but he needs to get the mug tactics out of his game first; like that silly incident last season when he tried to get under Tyson Frizell’s skin and it backfired on him badly. What we’d all love to see is Lomax come back in 2023 and cut the crap out of his game, just concentrate on being the best footballer he can be. You know what Freddy said is right, but only Lomax can deliver on the promise.
This is also untrue. The biggest issue the Dragons have is the engine room. Only Lawrie is a good prop. The rest and the hooker are barely NRL standard. Also Su'a is one backrower. Need another.
Click to expand...
I'm so sick of hearing about that. There was nothing in it. Just spur of the moment having a bit of what he thought was harmless fun. It was dumb and Frizell overreacted. Move of FFS.
 
Chris M

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
RedV01 said:
I'm so sick of hearing about that. There was nothing in it. Just spur of the moment having a bit of what he thought was harmless fun. It was dumb and Frizell overreacted. Move of FFS.
Click to expand...
Tyson and Newcastle fans have every reason to be angry. Since his big money deal to go to Newcastle, his form has gone off a cliff. If things keep going the way they were going last season, I expect he will be dropped . So yeah, he should be angry but not with Zac. He should be angry with the man in the mirror.
 
jodragon40

jodragon40

SGI NSW Cup
Eric said:

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

Will Griffin survive?​

The Dragons board and senior executive have put their own heads on the chopping block by not making the tough call with Griffin during the off-season. We saw last year when Wests Tigers gave Michael Maguire a stay of execution over the summer how it ultimately blew up in their faces. When they ended up sacking him mid-season it was too late to save them, with the club finishing with the wooden spoon. On the surface the Dragons appear to be in a very similar predicament, and if it turns to mud some very senior people are entitled to be put under the microscope by the fans.

Will Lomax realise his true potential?​

It’s become a bit of running gag around the game how everyone always goes back to Freddy Fittler spruiking Zac Lomax as “the gifted one”. The fact is Lomax is now 23 and it’s about time he delivered on that enormous potential, or otherwise he could wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened. At his best Lomax is State of Origin standard, but he needs to get the mug tactics out of his game first; like that silly incident last season when he tried to get under Tyson Frizell’s skin and it backfired on him badly. What we’d all love to see is Lomax come back in 2023 and cut the crap out of his game, just concentrate on being the best footballer he can be. You know what Freddy said is right, but only Lomax can deliver on the promise.

Massive spinal issues​

So much will still depend on Ben Hunt. The veteran halfback had a fabulous year in 2022 and he’ll need to do that next season for the Dragons to have any hope of challenging to top teams. Even more pressure goes on his shoulders with Cody Ramsey’s illness, Talatau Amone subjected to the no-fault stood-down policy and Jayden Sullivan suffering another hamstring injury. With either Ramsey or Tyrell Sloan at fullback, a fit Sullivan (or Moses Mbye) at five-eighth, and Jacob Liddle the dummy half, on paper it doesn’t look like they have the big guns in the most crucial positions to match the genuine heavyweights just yet. Still, this is a side that has a stack of players who could easily come out and shock us all by going to the next level in the next year or two. So if the Dragons can sort out their off-field issues they could be one still end up being one of the real surprise packets in 2023. Though it could just as easily go pear-shaped if the unrest lingers.
This is also untrue. The biggest issue the Dragons have is the engine room. Only Lawrie is a good prop. The rest and the hooker are barely NRL standard. Also Su'a is one backrower. Need another.
Click to expand...
Here here we are running on 3 cylinders instead of 6
 
GCRV

GCRV

SGI NSW Cup
Eric said:

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

Will Griffin survive?​

The Dragons board and senior executive have put their own heads on the chopping block by not making the tough call with Griffin during the off-season. We saw last year when Wests Tigers gave Michael Maguire a stay of execution over the summer how it ultimately blew up in their faces. When they ended up sacking him mid-season it was too late to save them, with the club finishing with the wooden spoon. On the surface the Dragons appear to be in a very similar predicament, and if it turns to mud some very senior people are entitled to be put under the microscope by the fans.

Will Lomax realise his true potential?​

It’s become a bit of running gag around the game how everyone always goes back to Freddy Fittler spruiking Zac Lomax as “the gifted one”. The fact is Lomax is now 23 and it’s about time he delivered on that enormous potential, or otherwise he could wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened. At his best Lomax is State of Origin standard, but he needs to get the mug tactics out of his game first; like that silly incident last season when he tried to get under Tyson Frizell’s skin and it backfired on him badly. What we’d all love to see is Lomax come back in 2023 and cut the crap out of his game, just concentrate on being the best footballer he can be. You know what Freddy said is right, but only Lomax can deliver on the promise.

Massive spinal issues​

So much will still depend on Ben Hunt. The veteran halfback had a fabulous year in 2022 and he’ll need to do that next season for the Dragons to have any hope of challenging to top teams. Even more pressure goes on his shoulders with Cody Ramsey’s illness, Talatau Amone subjected to the no-fault stood-down policy and Jayden Sullivan suffering another hamstring injury. With either Ramsey or Tyrell Sloan at fullback, a fit Sullivan (or Moses Mbye) at five-eighth, and Jacob Liddle the dummy half, on paper it doesn’t look like they have the big guns in the most crucial positions to match the genuine heavyweights just yet. Still, this is a side that has a stack of players who could easily come out and shock us all by going to the next level in the next year or two. So if the Dragons can sort out their off-field issues they could be one still end up being one of the real surprise packets in 2023. Though it could just as easily go pear-shaped if the unrest lingers.
This is also untrue. The biggest issue the Dragons have is the engine room. Only Lawrie is a good prop. The rest and the hooker are barely NRL standard. Also Su'a is one backrower. Need another.
Click to expand...
And Lawrie might be the best of the props at the club right now but he's hardly another Mick Weyman. His name won't feature when selectors meet to discuss SOO teams.
 
RedV01

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
GCRV said:
And Lawrie might be the best of the props at the club right now but he's hardly another Mick Weyman. His name won't feature when selectors meet to discuss SOO teams.
Click to expand...
In the first half of last season, he would have been dropped if the club wasn't so poor for front rowers. In the second half he was regularly pumping out 150m or more a game. That was impressive. There is still the possibility of the young prop, Johnson being in the team. Also the possibility J. Hunt will come good. Frank Molo should be good. Big, mobile and skillful for a front rower but he seems to have a touch of Josh Kerr in him. Why can't he be much better than he is?
 
Illusion

Illusion

SGI Jersey Flegg
RedV01 said:
In the first half of last season, he would have been dropped if the club wasn't so poor for front rowers. In the second half he was regularly pumping out 150m or more a game. That was impressive. There is still the possibility of the young prop, Johnson being in the team. Also the possibility J. Hunt will come good. Frank Molo should be good. Big, mobile and skillful for a front rower but he seems to have a touch of Josh Kerr in him. Why can't he be much better than he is?
Click to expand...
Mongrel ........
 
jodragon40

jodragon40

SGI NSW Cup
I was pleased with his progress as a prop forward. He changed his running style lowering his centre of gravity making him harder to tackle. He is a toiler, he is not a line buster something we need very badly. The opposition will adjust their tackling style and marking of him this season and if this is the case he will undoubtedly find it harder to achieve the 100m as a coach I require from him. I have been consistently saying you need 3 forwards running that 100m a game to make you competitive 4 gives you a better chance of success. I can't see us achieving that with our present engine room unfortunately.
 
RedV01

RedV01

SGI NSW Cup
Lost big names but dead wood well past their best. But how will Lomax go really well when the forwards are constantly on the backfoot?

St. George Illawarra Dragons – Zac Lomax​

This club is in so much strife, you probably could have named a number of different players.

Lomax has to stop listening to his mum telling him that he is good and start playing at the level she has led him to believe he is at.

The Red V have lost some big names in Tariq Sims, Josh McGuire, Andrew McCullough and George Burgess. There will be a lot of inexperienced faces around him, and the veteran Ben Hunt simply cannot be expected to do everything again.

Heading into his sixth season with the Red V, Lomax needs to lose the attitude, stop the in-fighting, take a good hard look in the mirror and become a leader for his side.
 
Eric

Eric

Staff

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

The fact they have so much talent on the way up suggests the Dragons are a side that should not be counted out heading into the new year. It certainly wouldn’t surprise to see them jag a spot in the bottom half of the eight, and if they don’t then they’ve probably underachieved.

But in saying that there’s still no denying this squad’s best football is probably a couple of years away when you factor in age and experience of some of this young talent.
What young talent are they talking about? Now Amone is out, there is only Sloan and Sullivan in the top 30 at present.

Finish the last five years:​

  • 2022: 10th
  • 2021: 11th
  • 2020: 12th
  • 2019: 15th
  • 2018: 7th

2023 odds:​

  • Premiership: $41
  • Minor premiership: $81
  • To make grand final: $19
  • Top four: $12
  • Top eight: $3.75
  • Most losses: $8
 
Ryan

Ryan

SGI Jersey Flegg
Eric said:

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

The fact they have so much talent on the way up suggests the Dragons are a side that should not be counted out heading into the new year. It certainly wouldn’t surprise to see them jag a spot in the bottom half of the eight, and if they don’t then they’ve probably underachieved.

But in saying that there’s still no denying this squad’s best football is probably a couple of years away when you factor in age and experience of some of this young talent.
What young talent are they talking about? Now Amone is out, there is only Sloan and Sullivan in the top 30 at present.

Finish the last five years:​

  • 2022: 10th
  • 2021: 11th
  • 2020: 12th
  • 2019: 15th
  • 2018: 7th

2023 odds:​

  • Premiership: $41
  • Minor premiership: $81
  • To make grand final: $19
  • Top four: $12
  • Top eight: $3.75
  • Most losses: $8
Click to expand...
Feagai x 2 are only 21. I think that is a year younger than Bud Sullivan.
 
jodragon40

jodragon40

SGI NSW Cup
Eric said:

ST. GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS​

The fact they have so much talent on the way up suggests the Dragons are a side that should not be counted out heading into the new year. It certainly wouldn’t surprise to see them jag a spot in the bottom half of the eight, and if they don’t then they’ve probably underachieved.

But in saying that there’s still no denying this squad’s best football is probably a couple of years away when you factor in age and experience of some of this young talent.
What young talent are they talking about? Now Amone is out, there is only Sloan and Sullivan in the top 30 at present.

Finish the last five years:​

  • 2022: 10th
  • 2021: 11th
  • 2020: 12th
  • 2019: 15th
  • 2018: 7th

2023 odds:​

  • Premiership: $41
  • Minor premiership: $81
  • To make grand final: $19
  • Top four: $12
  • Top eight: $3.75
  • Most losses: $8
Click to expand...
I have consistently said 2025 before we are competitive enough for a tilt at semi finals football. I have also been consistent based on my own experience that the engine room is the most important part of any team. I have said we could have the kangaroos backline in our team and it would only be an advantage if our forwards were competitive enough to consistently make and surpass the advantage line. I love a punt and I know a few SP Bookies in my time. This is my take on the current club and team culture and talent in framing a more realistic market.

Premiership - $250-1
Minor Premiers - $250-1
Grand Finalists - $250-1
Top 4 - $250-1
Top 8 - $100-1
Most losses - $5-1
Finishing Position between 10th - 17th - $1.50-1(best odds by far). Very sad to frame such a market as this year marks 53 yrs of support the big Red V.
 
jodragon40

jodragon40

SGI NSW Cup
RedV01 said:
Lost big names but dead wood well past their best. But how will Lomax go really well when the forwards are constantly on the backfoot?

St. George Illawarra Dragons – Zac Lomax​

This club is in so much strife, you probably could have named a number of different players.

Lomax has to stop listening to his mum telling him that he is good and start playing at the level she has led him to believe he is at.

The Red V have lost some big names in Tariq Sims, Josh McGuire, Andrew McCullough and George Burgess. There will be a lot of inexperienced faces around him, and the veteran Ben Hunt simply cannot be expected to do everything again.

Heading into his sixth season with the Red V, Lomax needs to lose the attitude, stop the in-fighting, take a good hard look in the mirror and become a leader for his side.
Click to expand...
Undoubtedly he is talented but unfortunately he is still developing a football brain. He makes rash decisions that leave his teamates confused. He needs a different more authoritarian coach to bring the best out of him. Griffin is not that coach.
 
Eric

Eric

Staff
Spine rating

Dragons​

Three-quarters of our predicted round-one spine either didn’t finish the season in their respective position, or, in Liddle’s case, hadn’t signed with the club at the time. An illness to Ramsey, the standing down of Amone, and retirement of Andrew McCullough has forced coach Anthony Griffin to reach into his depth chart. The Dragons may need another unbelievable season from Hunt to merely stay in touch with the top eight.

FULLBACK: Tyrell Sloan​

Sloan rocketed into favouritism for the fullback spot due to the most unfortunate of circumstances. A rare illness over summer has seen Cody Ramsey ruled out for the 2023 season. The wiry no.1 made the jumper his own playing in 11 of the final 13 games for Saints at the back. However, it’s Sloan who has taken over the role in Ramsey’s absence throughout the pre-season. The 20-year old was actually the preferred fullback to start last season, beginning the year with the first three rounds before he was dropped to develop his game

Next best: Moses Mbye​

FIVE-EIGHTH: Jayden Sullivan​

Junior Amone was slated for a second season at five-eighth but has been stood down indefinitely for his alleged hammer attack last November. His unavailable opens the door for Sullivan, who requested an immediate release in search of a starting gig elsewhere, only to backflip and remain in Wollongong. The 21-year-old now gets his chance. Sullivan possesses a strong awareness and feel for the game that unlocks his instinctual attacking skills either with a long ball or deft kicking game. The key will be how he handles the workload in defence.

Next best: Moses Mbye, Junior Amone*​

HALFBACK: Ben Hunt​

Superb in 2022, the Dragons best player finished the year with a World Cup win with Australia. Hunt is by far and away the Dragons most influential figure as evident by his 2022 season that saw him finish with the team’s most try assists, most line-break assists, most offloads, most forced drop-outs and five 40/20s. Hunt turns 33 in March, however, there’s no sign whatsoever of his physicality dipping.

Next best: Jayden Sullivan, Moses Mbye​

HOOKER: Jacob Liddle​

So often we see a player make a career move that turns out to be the best decision of his career. Liddle could fit that mould for Saints. In and out of the Wests Tigers hooker position since 2016, Liddle arrives at the Dragons without head noise or uncertainty, knowing that he will be the club’s first-choice hooker. Confidence can do wonders for a player and with 70-games of NRL experience, Liddle is in the sweet spot to prove he belongs to be a weekly NRL player.

Next best: Moses Mbye, Haele Finau​

 
Chris M

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
Eric said:
Spine rating

Dragons​

Three-quarters of our predicted round-one spine either didn’t finish the season in their respective position, or, in Liddle’s case, hadn’t signed with the club at the time. An illness to Ramsey, the standing down of Amone, and retirement of Andrew McCullough has forced coach Anthony Griffin to reach into his depth chart. The Dragons may need another unbelievable season from Hunt to merely stay in touch with the top eight.

FULLBACK: Tyrell Sloan​

Sloan rocketed into favouritism for the fullback spot due to the most unfortunate of circumstances. A rare illness over summer has seen Cody Ramsey ruled out for the 2023 season. The wiry no.1 made the jumper his own playing in 11 of the final 13 games for Saints at the back. However, it’s Sloan who has taken over the role in Ramsey’s absence throughout the pre-season. The 20-year old was actually the preferred fullback to start last season, beginning the year with the first three rounds before he was dropped to develop his game

Next best: Moses Mbye​

FIVE-EIGHTH: Jayden Sullivan​

Junior Amone was slated for a second season at five-eighth but has been stood down indefinitely for his alleged hammer attack last November. His unavailable opens the door for Sullivan, who requested an immediate release in search of a starting gig elsewhere, only to backflip and remain in Wollongong. The 21-year-old now gets his chance. Sullivan possesses a strong awareness and feel for the game that unlocks his instinctual attacking skills either with a long ball or deft kicking game. The key will be how he handles the workload in defence.

Next best: Moses Mbye, Junior Amone*​

HALFBACK: Ben Hunt​

Superb in 2022, the Dragons best player finished the year with a World Cup win with Australia. Hunt is by far and away the Dragons most influential figure as evident by his 2022 season that saw him finish with the team’s most try assists, most line-break assists, most offloads, most forced drop-outs and five 40/20s. Hunt turns 33 in March, however, there’s no sign whatsoever of his physicality dipping.

Next best: Jayden Sullivan, Moses Mbye​

HOOKER: Jacob Liddle​

So often we see a player make a career move that turns out to be the best decision of his career. Liddle could fit that mould for Saints. In and out of the Wests Tigers hooker position since 2016, Liddle arrives at the Dragons without head noise or uncertainty, knowing that he will be the club’s first-choice hooker. Confidence can do wonders for a player and with 70-games of NRL experience, Liddle is in the sweet spot to prove he belongs to be a weekly NRL player.

Next best: Moses Mbye, Haele Finau​

Click to expand...
If Sullivan comes good as a 5/8, that spine isn't that bad. Liddle is the only problem.
 
jodragon40

jodragon40

SGI NSW Cup
People get lost in the meaning of a spine. There was no such thing in my day. The difference now days is that those positions combine, whereas in the past it was solely based around your 6 & 7 and the combinations they formed with your edges and the fullback chiming into the backline. It is now the nucleus of both a teams attack and defence, and in my view over reliant to the success of a team but this is the new world order. I would always say if asked what was my most important positions, it was my front row 11, 12 and 13. Our current spine holds no fears to the opposition
 
Chris M

Chris M

SGI NSW Cup
jodragon40 said:
People get lost in the meaning of a spine. There was no such thing in my day. The difference now days is that those positions combine, whereas in the past it was solely based around your 6 & 7 and the combinations they formed with your edges and the fullback chiming into the backline. It is now the nucleus of both a teams attack and defence, and in my view over reliant to the success of a team but this is the new world order. I would always say if asked what was my most important positions, it was my front row 11, 12 and 13. Our current spine holds no fears to the opposition
Click to expand...
I'm hopeful Sloan with several more kgs on him and more confidence in taking the ball back will be a gun this year.
 
GCRV

GCRV

SGI NSW Cup
Zero Tackle is tentatively now listing Shereb as a top 30 player. That may explain Bird training at 5/8. They are planning to play Shereb in the second row with Sua.
 
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